In this Bible study podcast, Andy Davis goes line by line through Hebrews 2:5-9. The author quotes Psalm 8 and ascribes it to Jesus as the perfect man, temporarily made a little lower than angels, ultimately exalted above the heavens, temporarily suffering death, ultimately crowned with glory and honor, ruling over the world to come. Therefore the author is showing that Jesus seems to be lower than He really is, because in His earthly mission He humbled Himself even to death on a cross. The author is also declaring that, in the end, Jesus will reign over angels and all the new creation.
The author quotes Psalm 8 and ascribes it to Jesus as the perfect man, temporarily made a little lower than angels, ultimately exalted above the heavens, temporarily suffering death, ultimately crowned with glory and honor, ruling over the world to come. Therefore the author is showing that Jesus seems to be lower than He really is, because in His earthly mission He humbled Himself even to death on a cross. The author is also declaring that, in the end, Jesus will reign over angels and all the new creation.
– PODCAST TRANSCRIPT –
Joel
Hi, welcome to the “Two Journeys Podcast.” This is episode three in the book of Hebrews, titled, “The Son of Man Crowned with Glory and Honor,” where we discuss Hebrews 2:5-9. I’m your host, Joel Hartford, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis.
Andy, this is an incredible section of Scripture that the author of Hebrews reaches to a Psalm to talk about how great the Son of Man is. What can you tell us about this section?
Andy
Well, again, let’s keep in mind what the author’s doing here in the book of Hebrews. He’s speaking to Jewish professors of faith in Christ who are under strong temptation to turn away from Jesus, as the mediator of the new covenant, and turn back to old covenant Judaism. And so, the author wants to do two things really in this book. First, positively to present the superiority of Christ, as a mediator, superior to angels, superior to Moses, superior to Abraham, superior to all of the Old Testament heroes. He’s just superior. The superiority, or the supremacy, really, of Jesus, and the superiority of the new covenant that he came to bring, which is superior in every way to the old covenant. He’s going to make that case for many chapters, resulting in a superior life, the life of faith where we lay aside every weight and we imitate the heroes of the faith in the past. We walk by faith. So that’s a positive side.
Negatively, he is going to warn them, most seriously, what will happen to them if they neglect such a great salvation, if they turn away from it or trample the Son of God underfoot, et cetera. So that’s what he’s doing.
Now in this section, he’s going to deal with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while lower than the angels. Now he’d been making the case that Jesus is infinitely greater than the angels. And one of the things that I think that the unbelieving Jewish leaders would be using as an argument to dissuade these Jewish professors of faith in Christ, is that he’s just a man. He’s a human being. How can a man be God? I mean, he was hungry, he was thirsty, he died. And we who know more of the story, say more than that. He sweat great drops of blood and was helped by an angel. At the moment that he was in Gethsemane being helped by an angel, you would ask, “Who’s greater here? The one who helps or the one who is helped?”
And so the author is dealing with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while made lower than the angels, but now he’s crowned with glory and honor and all the angels are on their faces before him. That’s who he is. So don’t be deceived because of the physicality of Jesus of Nazareth, thinking he’s not the Son of God. There was a reason why he was made for a little while lower than the angels. And there’s really two aspects to that, one is that he’s human, and all humans are lower than the angels. He’s a quintessential human being, but also, he was made human so that he could, by the grace of God, taste death for everyone. So we’re going to talk about that.
“The author is dealing with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while made lower than the angels, but now he’s crowned with glory and honor and all the angels are on their faces before him. That’s who he is.”
Joel
I love it. I can’t wait. So for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Hebrews 2:5-9, “For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. It has been testified somewhere, ‘What is man that you are mindful of him, or the son of man that you care for him? You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, putting everything in subjection under his feet.’ Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”
Okay, so the author returns to the theme of talking about angels again. And then he says that it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. So what is this world to come of which we are speaking?
Andy
Well, let’s keep in mind at the very end of chapter one, Hebrews 1, the author talks about how through Jesus, God the Father, through Jesus, laid the foundation of the earth at the beginning. Actually, the Father ascribes it to Jesus. “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning and the heavens of the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up,” speaking of Jesus, “Like a garment, they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will have no end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12)
So the biblical teaching here is that the present heavens and earth are going to be rolled up like a garment and thrown away to some degree. There’s going to be a new heavens and a new earth. That’s the world to come about, which we are speaking. And so, this present world with its remaining history, and sin, and corruption, in bondage to decay, is subjected to Jesus, and the future world, about which the author is speaking that’s coming, that’s also going to be subject to Jesus.
He’s the Lord of heaven and earth. As he says very plainly in the great commission, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.”(Matthew 28:18) He says in 1 Corinthians 15:20-29, in that section there, he says that the Father’s going to put all enemies under the feet of the Son. He’s going to rule over everything in heaven and on earth and under the earth. Everything is in subjection to him. But it’s not to angels that the Father subjected the world to come. The angels are just servants. We’ve already said that. But Jesus, however humiliated he was in his earthly life, he has a glorious future of being king of the new heaven and the new earth, and he’s presently on the throne of glory now, even over the present, decaying universe.
Joel
The author of Hebrews next, he gives some scripture in support of his point, and he says, “It has been testified somewhere,”(Hebrews 2:6) now, that’s probably the most vague citation I’ve ever heard of, “It has been testified somewhere.” Why do you think he says it like this, as opposed to saying, “For it is written in the Psalms,” or, “David says”?
Andy
I don’t really know. The author of Hebrews does a very interesting job citing Old Testament scripture. Sometimes he directly ascribes it to the Holy Spirit, “The Holy Spirit says, as the Holy Spirit says,” we’ll see that in the next chapter here. Here, I don’t know if he’s minimizing human authorship, I really don’t know. I just have to say I don’t know why he says it’s been testified somewhere. It’s not like he didn’t know it was Psalm 8.
Joel
Yeah, because he quotes it verbatim, right?
Andy
Yeah, yeah, I mean, believe me, he knew the Old Testament better than we do.
Joel
And what about this word testified? Because sometimes New Testament authors will say, “It is written in the Psalms,” or, “Isaiah said.” But this word testified carries courtroom connotations. Why would he use a strong word like this?
Andy
Well, just for all of the diminishment of the human author, perhaps, where he’s saying it’s been testified somewhere by someone, still the word testifies says this is the word of God. I mean, who he wrote it through isn’t as important as what he said. And so the human agency of David or Asaph or Moses, in writing a Psalm, is not as important as the fact that the Holy Spirit came on them and said this very strong thing. He’s testified that man is insignificant at one level, and extremely, radiantly, glorious, and powerful, and significant at another level. That’s where we’re going.
Joel
All right, for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Psalm 8, so that you can help us interpret this. Psalm 8 says,
“Oh Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory above the heavens. Out of the mouth of babies and infants, you have established strength because of your foes, to still the enemy and the avenger. When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you’re mindful of him and the son of man that you care for him? Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You have given him dominion over the work of your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen and also the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the paths of the seas. Oh Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!”
How do you interpret Psalm 8? And how does this fit into the author of Hebrew’s argument here in chapter two?
Andy
Well, if we just immerse our self in the Old Testament Psalm, we think about what David’s writing there. I feel like what David is doing, he’s just marveling at God and the greatness of God and His purposes, “How inscrutable his ways and his paths beyond tracing out,”(Paraphrase of Romans 11:33) Paul says in Romans 11.
I almost can picture him out under a starry night sky, and we’ve all had that experience. You look up and you just see, “When I consider the heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you established, I think, what am I?” And we know now with the Hubble space telescope, and all kinds of exploration and cosmology that scientists have studied, we realize we are incredibly small. We’re like atomically small. The universe is just immense. And as you keep going further and further and further and further away from the earth, and then from the solar system, and from the galaxy we’re in, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and we’re like, “Where are we?” We just think, “What is man that you even care about us?” And that’s the thing. There’s a sense of the humiliation, the lowliness of human beings. We are insignificant compared to God, who made the heavens.
So, “When I consider the heavens the work of your fingers,” I think about the word fingers, the precision there, that God, like a skillful painter or a sculptor or even a concert level pianist, there’s a sense of precision and skill with the word fingers, where hand or arm might be more power. So, “When I consider the skillfulness with which you made the heavens and the earth, I think what is man?” And so there’s a humility here in David, “And yet,” there’s that word yet, however, “You’ve made us a little lower than the angels. You actually do care about us, because we’re created in the image of God.” So that’s the marvel, the scope. We are small compared to God and the universe, but we are great because God made us. So that’s what Psalm 8 is saying.
Joel
So then the author of Hebrews is going to use this Psalm to talk about the, you mentioned in the beginning of the humiliation, but then the exaltation of Jesus. So how does Jesus become a little lower than the angels, but then he’s exalted to the right hand of the Father?
Andy
Yeah, that’s a very good point. Let’s stick with human beings for just a moment. What’s amazing about biblical eschatology is that despite our insignificance, we’re going to outlast the stars. Think about that. It’s already said in Hebrews 1, “He’s going to roll them up like a garment and throw them away.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 1:12) We know in Revelation the stars are going to fall like figs from a fig tree, and we’ll still be here. So you’re like, “Wow, how could it be that we are more permanent, and in some sense, more powerful than the stars?” Because God made us so. You keep that in mind. But I think what’s happening here, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, is that there’s a temptation to look at a human being, to look at Jesus in his physicality, and the fact that he was born of a woman, he was wrapped up in swaddling clothes and laid in the manger, he grew up like a little boy, and he was a little boy, and he was a teenager, and he was a young man. And then at about the age 30, he began his public ministry, and he looked like any other man. Isaiah 53:2 says, “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.” There’s nothing spectacular about Jesus’s appearance, except one time when he was transfigured and his clothes became radiant like the light and his face shown like the sun. Other than that, he looked normal. And so you could think not just, “What is man that you are mindful of him?” it’s like, “What is Jesus that we should worship him as God?” This is the very argument Jesus’s enemies made against him. “He’s just a man. He gets dressed like the rest of us. He eats, he sleeps, he gets tired and he dies.” So how could God die?
So that’s the argument being made against Jesus. And so what the author is doing here is saying, “First of all, human beings aren’t what they appear to be. We are greater than you think we are. We are in the image of God and we don’t appear much, cause you’re so used to seeing people, but we are great because God has made us a little lower than the angels.” So that’s what he’s saying. “What is man, that you even mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him?”(Hebrews 2:6) Now, that phrase “son of man” should be familiar to any readers of the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus’ favorite expression for himself was Son of Man. And so Jesus is linking into this idea of, “I am fully human and therefore I am subject to the limitations of the human race.” But don’t be deceived. “Though for a little while I was made a little lower than the angels, still I am greater than the angels.” Just like for a little while we are under the starry heavens, but we’re going to outlast them. I think that’s what he’s doing here. He’s saying that Jesus is the quintessential human being. Don’t be deceived. He’s greater than he appears to be.
Joel
Yeah, I love that. Just talking about him crowned with glory and honor, putting everything into subjection under his feet, and you mentioned him as the quintessential human being. I think of how Jesus has reversed and undone all the shame and humiliation that Adam incurred for our race, and essentially handing over the keys of the world to the evil one.
Andy
We messed up. I mean, he represented us, and we blew it. We messed up and we sinned. And Jesus is now our representative. He is the Son of Man. He is the quintessential perfect human. And so everything that God intended when he said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the earth.”(Paraphrase of Genesis 1:26) The psalmist is thinking about that. Psalm 8, he’s thinking about, “We don’t look like much, but we’re in charge here.”
And so if you put, let’s say, a human being, side by side with a gorilla, you’re like, “Okay, gorilla wins.” It’s like, “Yeah, well don’t be so sure,” because the gorilla wins until the man pulls out a firearm which has harnessed metallurgy and chemistry and to make explosives, and the gorilla is dead within a few seconds. It’s like; it’s not what it appears. The gap between us and every other animal, in terms of intelligence and capability is almost immeasurable. I mean, there’s no porpoise, no dolphin, no chimp, no squirrel that’s even close to us, in terms of our capabilities.
But I would say the same thing is true of Jesus, in terms of the angels and all of us. The gap is just immeasurable, infinite. So don’t be deceived by appearances, I think of what Psalm 8 is saying. We are a little lower than the angels, and so Jesus, for a while, seemed less than the angels, like when he was sweating great drops of blood and an angel had to come and minister to him, or after his temptation in the desert and angels came and fed him and cared for him. Again, it seems like he’s lower than the angels, but actually he’s greater than they are.
Joel
Now it says, “In putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control.”(Hebrews 2:8) So we’ve talked about that, especially in Hebrews 1:3, how it says, “He upholds the universe by the word of his power,” but yet he says, “At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.”(Hebrews 2:8) So what’s going on with the world now and what is the reality behind it?
Andy
Well, I want to say, just, there’s something burning in my heart, is again, that definition of faith that God gave me some time ago. Faith is the eyesight of the soul. You have to see invisible things. And part of that is seeing the future. At present, it doesn’t seem like everything’s been subjected to Jesus, but when we get to the new Jerusalem, when we get to the new heaven and new earth, when the entire universe is irradiated by the glory of God through Jesus, the glory of God gives it light in the lamb as its lamp, we’ll see the greatness of Jesus then, we just don’t see it now. And why is that? Because we still got sin going on. We’ve still got rebellion. We’ve still got demons. We’ve still got decay and death, especially death.
So let’s focus in on death. The Father said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”(Hebrews 1:13) And so every one of Jesus’s enemies is going to be under his feet someday, but death isn’t under his feet right now, though Jesus himself escaped death and he tasted death for everyone, yet his people still die. Death is the final enemy. And so, at present, we don’t see death in subjection to Jesus. We just have to believe that it is. We have to believe that he rose from the dead. We don’t see evidence of that. We just read about it in the Bible and believe it.
And so, we see Jesus’s victory over death in the past by believing the gospel, and in the present by the fact that invisible souls of the redeemed are in happiness in heaven, and someday they’ll receive resurrection bodies. But especially in the future when he, himself is alive, and we can see him with our own eyes, and he’s on a throne of glory, and all the redeemed from every tribe, language, people, and nation are in resurrection bodies, we will see him triumph over death, then. So right now, we don’t see everything in subjection to Jesus, but we have a promise. “Sit at my right hand until I make all your enemies a footstool for your feet,”(Hebrews 1:13) and that’s going to be fulfilled.
Joel
Yeah, I think that’s huge, as we look at our world and just see all the suffering and sin, and people ask the questions on the problem of evil, if you look at… Whether it be natural destruction, totalitarian regimes, the oppression of Christ’s church, it doesn’t look on the outside as though Jesus is ruling the universe, but he is, and we see that by faith.
Andy
Again, I think one of the themes here of this podcast is appearances can be deceiving. Human beings aren’t all that they appear to be, and that we appear to be weak and mortal, and we are weak and mortal, but we have an incredible future. So all of this is based on faith in the promises of God.
So at present, we don’t see everything in subjection to Jesus. We see many people who don’t even know about Jesus, or who don’t believe in him, or denigrate him, openly rebel against him. So how are they in subjection to Jesus? How is he the king of kings and Lord of lords, when most of the kings and lords on earth do wickedness, and use their power to slaughter people, and to feather their own nests, and to establish their own glory, in direct defiance of Jesus? How do we see things in subjection to him? It doesn’t appear that they are, but again, appearances can be deceiving. Someday, he will reign openly on a throne of glory, and all of the kings, as it says in Daniel 7, “All kings and rulers will serve him.”(Paraphrase of Daniel 7:27)
Joel
Now, Hebrews 2:9 says, “But we see him, who for a little while is made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.” Now, there’s a lot packed into here, so I’m going to try to take it phrase by phrase, but let’s talk first about, “But we see him.” You just mentioned a few minutes ago that faith is the eyesight of the soul. So how does Scripture enable us to say, “But we see Him”? How does it give us a vision of Christ?
Andy
Yeah, this is a very, very important question. I’ve mentioned it several times in some of the earlier answers today. Faith is the eyesight of the soul. What do I mean by that? The ability to see invisible spiritual things. We have, in Ephesians 1:18, Paul prays that, “The eyes of your heart may be enlightened.” “The eyes of the heart.” That’s an interesting phrase. So I think with other verses coming in, like, “We walk by faith, not by sight.”(2 Corinthians 5:7) “We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen.”(2 Corinthians 4:18) There are many of these verses that link faith to sight. It’s not like I came up with it. It’s just reading verse like, “Oh, faith is the eyesight of the soul.”
And now this is a prime example here, Hebrews 2:9, “We see him.” How do we see him? Actually, 1 Peter 1:8 says we don’t see him, “Though we have not seen him, we love him; and even though we do not see him now, we believe in him.” He’s meaning, physically seeing. Peter means physically, we don’t see him now.
The author of Hebrews means we’re seeing him spiritually with the eyes of the heart. And we see it based on assertions made in the Bible, like right at the beginning of this book, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”(Hebrews 1:3) Well, there you go. Where’s Jesus? Sitting down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Do you see it? By faith, I do. By faith, I can see him seated at the right hand of God.
So that’s what it means by, “we see Jesus, now crowned with glory and honor.” Why? Because we believe the things that are said about him, even in this verse, “We see him, now crowned with glory and honor.”(Hebrews 2:9) Oh, he must be now crowned with glory and honor.
Joel
So picking up off of that, he says, “Crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death.”(Hebrews 2:9) So that phrase, “because of” is linking his glory and honor now with the suffering and death he experienced on the earth. How does Jesus’s crucifixion and atonement that he provided for his people, actually, essentially, he already had infinite glory before the incarnation and his road to the cross, but now it seems he has even more glory?
Andy
Yeah. Well, I think it’s just that history matters to God. It matters what actually happened in space and time. And when Jesus achieved the victory at the cross, the Father was well pleased with him and gave him a crown of glory and honor for having done it. He obeyed the Father, and the obedience was infinitely costly, more costly than any other human being’s obedience has ever been. It is immensely glorious what Jesus did, and he deserves the victor’s crown. He has won the right to take the scroll from the right hand of Him who sits on the throne. He, the Lamb of God, has triumphed and he is victorious. And so in Revelation 5, they’re celebrating with cascades of praise and glory that go to Jesus for dying on the cross and for his resurrection victory. So you look at that, it’s like, that’s the glory and honor He is crowned with. He won the right.
I want to say one thing about the word “Jesus,” too. It’s interesting. This is the first mention of the word “Jesus” in the book of Hebrews. We’ve been talking about the Son up to this point. And so Jesus is his human name. It’s the name that the angel gave to Joseph, that, “You’ll give him the name Jesus.”(Paraphrase of Matthew 1:21) It means, “The Lord saves,” but it’s the human name. Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter who walked the dusty roads. And so, he just uses the human name. “Jesus,” the human being, “we see now crowned with glory and honor.”
So that goes back to the Psalm 8 aspect. “What is man that you are mindful of him?”(Psalm 8:4) He’s just a human being, but he’s not. He is Jesus. That’s true. The Jesus of history, some of the liberal theologians, and the Christ of faith, they go into all this kind of poppycock. But at any rate, the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith are one and the same. And the Jesus who was born of the virgin, is also the Son spoken of at the beginning of this book, and he is now crowned with glory and honor. So I love the way the author of Hebrews says, “Jesus is now crowned with glory and honor.”
Joel
Now, he says this phrase that you alluded to earlier about, “By the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.”(Hebrews 2:9) I think this speaks to his work of atonement and bearing the wrath of God, right?
Andy
Absolutely.
Joel
So how does Jesus taste death for us?
Andy
Well, my mind goes immediately to Gethsemane when we’re speaking of a cup. And so, the cup would have wine in it, and Jesus was shrinking back. There was nothing delicious about it. It was bitter, infinitely bitter. And for Jesus to drink that cup, “Father, if it is possible, let this cup be taken from me. Yet not my will be done but yours.”(Paraphrase of Matthew 26:39) So this is the cup of death, and not just physical death, but eternal death. I mean, hell. Jesus drank hell for me and for you and for every believer. And so, he tasted eternal death and physical death for us. “The wages of sin is death.”(Romans 6:23) And so I think taste and drank would be similar concepts here. He drank it to its bitterest dregs.
“Jesus drank hell for me and for you and for every believer.”
He said, “It is finished.”(John 19:30) He finished the cup. There’s nothing more to do. And so, he tasted death for us. And if we mean eternal death, like hell, so that we wouldn’t have to. We will taste physical death, but Jesus drank that bitter cup to its bottom, and that includes the wrath of God. There’ll be no wrath for us. So he tasted death for us by the grace of God. So God, the Father, wanted him to drink that cup for us.
Joel
So we will never know the kind of death he drank.
Andy
No, we can’t. I mean, the infinite wrath of God, the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the regrets, the torture, the agony. These things were in some mysterious way, poured into Jesus’ infinite soul. And it’s staggering. It really is something. What else would cause someone like Jesus to recoil in horror and be knocked to the ground and sweat great drops of blood? It’s just indescribable, and he drank it for us. For everyone, the author says that, “By the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.”(Hebrews 2:9) And that’s not universalism. It’s not every single solitary human being, but it’s every one of his children, the sons that he gave him, which the rest of this chapter will make clear.
Joel
Yeah, I think later it says, “It is not the angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.”(Hebrews 2:16) And just putting that together with other Scriptures, we know that the offspring of Abraham are the children of faith, those who receive the Son of God, those who are born of promise, not of the flesh. So do you have any final thoughts on this brief section?
Andy
Well, again, the big picture here is despite appearances, Jesus is glorious. Despite the appearances of his weakness and his humanity and his frailty, the fact that he was born and wrapped in swaddling clothes, and grew up and was a human just like anybody else. Despite all of that, he is infinitely glorious. And if we see him by faith, we can see him now crowned with glory and honor because of the triumph of his cross, and the empty tomb, because of the victory he won by dying for us. That’s how we should see Jesus. Appearances can be deceiving. Jesus is infinitely greater than he appeared to be.
Joel
Well, that was episode three in “Hebrews: Bible Study Questions, The Son of Man Crowned With Glory and Honor.” Next episode will be, “Jesus is Exalted Through Suffering.” Thank you for listening to the “Two Journeys Podcast,” and God bless you all.
The author quotes Psalm 8 and ascribes it to Jesus as the perfect man, temporarily made a little lower than angels, ultimately exalted above the heavens, temporarily suffering death, ultimately crowned with glory and honor, ruling over the world to come. Therefore the author is showing that Jesus seems to be lower than He really is, because in His earthly mission He humbled Himself even to death on a cross. The author is also declaring that, in the end, Jesus will reign over angels and all the new creation.
– PODCAST TRANSCRIPT –
Joel
Hi, welcome to the “Two Journeys Podcast.” This is episode three in the book of Hebrews, titled, “The Son of Man Crowned with Glory and Honor,” where we discuss Hebrews 2:5-9. I’m your host, Joel Hartford, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis.
Andy, this is an incredible section of Scripture that the author of Hebrews reaches to a Psalm to talk about how great the Son of Man is. What can you tell us about this section?
Andy
Well, again, let’s keep in mind what the author’s doing here in the book of Hebrews. He’s speaking to Jewish professors of faith in Christ who are under strong temptation to turn away from Jesus, as the mediator of the new covenant, and turn back to old covenant Judaism. And so, the author wants to do two things really in this book. First, positively to present the superiority of Christ, as a mediator, superior to angels, superior to Moses, superior to Abraham, superior to all of the Old Testament heroes. He’s just superior. The superiority, or the supremacy, really, of Jesus, and the superiority of the new covenant that he came to bring, which is superior in every way to the old covenant. He’s going to make that case for many chapters, resulting in a superior life, the life of faith where we lay aside every weight and we imitate the heroes of the faith in the past. We walk by faith. So that’s a positive side.
Negatively, he is going to warn them, most seriously, what will happen to them if they neglect such a great salvation, if they turn away from it or trample the Son of God underfoot, et cetera. So that’s what he’s doing.
Now in this section, he’s going to deal with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while lower than the angels. Now he’d been making the case that Jesus is infinitely greater than the angels. And one of the things that I think that the unbelieving Jewish leaders would be using as an argument to dissuade these Jewish professors of faith in Christ, is that he’s just a man. He’s a human being. How can a man be God? I mean, he was hungry, he was thirsty, he died. And we who know more of the story, say more than that. He sweat great drops of blood and was helped by an angel. At the moment that he was in Gethsemane being helped by an angel, you would ask, “Who’s greater here? The one who helps or the one who is helped?”
And so the author is dealing with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while made lower than the angels, but now he’s crowned with glory and honor and all the angels are on their faces before him. That’s who he is. So don’t be deceived because of the physicality of Jesus of Nazareth, thinking he’s not the Son of God. There was a reason why he was made for a little while lower than the angels. And there’s really two aspects to that, one is that he’s human, and all humans are lower than the angels. He’s a quintessential human being, but also, he was made human so that he could, by the grace of God, taste death for everyone. So we’re going to talk about that.
“The author is dealing with the apparent humiliation of Jesus, who was for a little while made lower than the angels, but now he’s crowned with glory and honor and all the angels are on their faces before him. That’s who he is.”
Joel
I love it. I can’t wait. So for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Hebrews 2:5-9, “For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. It has been testified somewhere, ‘What is man that you are mindful of him, or the son of man that you care for him? You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, putting everything in subjection under his feet.’ Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.”
Okay, so the author returns to the theme of talking about angels again. And then he says that it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. So what is this world to come of which we are speaking?
Andy
Well, let’s keep in mind at the very end of chapter one, Hebrews 1, the author talks about how through Jesus, God the Father, through Jesus, laid the foundation of the earth at the beginning. Actually, the Father ascribes it to Jesus. “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning and the heavens of the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up,” speaking of Jesus, “Like a garment, they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will have no end.” (Hebrews 1:10-12)
So the biblical teaching here is that the present heavens and earth are going to be rolled up like a garment and thrown away to some degree. There’s going to be a new heavens and a new earth. That’s the world to come about, which we are speaking. And so, this present world with its remaining history, and sin, and corruption, in bondage to decay, is subjected to Jesus, and the future world, about which the author is speaking that’s coming, that’s also going to be subject to Jesus.
He’s the Lord of heaven and earth. As he says very plainly in the great commission, “All authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.”(Matthew 28:18) He says in 1 Corinthians 15:20-29, in that section there, he says that the Father’s going to put all enemies under the feet of the Son. He’s going to rule over everything in heaven and on earth and under the earth. Everything is in subjection to him. But it’s not to angels that the Father subjected the world to come. The angels are just servants. We’ve already said that. But Jesus, however humiliated he was in his earthly life, he has a glorious future of being king of the new heaven and the new earth, and he’s presently on the throne of glory now, even over the present, decaying universe.
Joel
The author of Hebrews next, he gives some scripture in support of his point, and he says, “It has been testified somewhere,”(Hebrews 2:6) now, that’s probably the most vague citation I’ve ever heard of, “It has been testified somewhere.” Why do you think he says it like this, as opposed to saying, “For it is written in the Psalms,” or, “David says”?
Andy
I don’t really know. The author of Hebrews does a very interesting job citing Old Testament scripture. Sometimes he directly ascribes it to the Holy Spirit, “The Holy Spirit says, as the Holy Spirit says,” we’ll see that in the next chapter here. Here, I don’t know if he’s minimizing human authorship, I really don’t know. I just have to say I don’t know why he says it’s been testified somewhere. It’s not like he didn’t know it was Psalm 8.
Joel
Yeah, because he quotes it verbatim, right?
Andy
Yeah, yeah, I mean, believe me, he knew the Old Testament better than we do.
Joel
And what about this word testified? Because sometimes New Testament authors will say, “It is written in the Psalms,” or, “Isaiah said.” But this word testified carries courtroom connotations. Why would he use a strong word like this?
Andy
Well, just for all of the diminishment of the human author, perhaps, where he’s saying it’s been testified somewhere by someone, still the word testifies says this is the word of God. I mean, who he wrote it through isn’t as important as what he said. And so the human agency of David or Asaph or Moses, in writing a Psalm, is not as important as the fact that the Holy Spirit came on them and said this very strong thing. He’s testified that man is insignificant at one level, and extremely, radiantly, glorious, and powerful, and significant at another level. That’s where we’re going.
Joel
All right, for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Psalm 8, so that you can help us interpret this. Psalm 8 says,
“Oh Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory above the heavens. Out of the mouth of babies and infants, you have established strength because of your foes, to still the enemy and the avenger. When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you’re mindful of him and the son of man that you care for him? Yet you have made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor. You have given him dominion over the work of your hands; you have put all things under his feet, all sheep and oxen and also the beasts of the field, the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, whatever passes along the paths of the seas. Oh Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!”
How do you interpret Psalm 8? And how does this fit into the author of Hebrew’s argument here in chapter two?
Andy
Well, if we just immerse our self in the Old Testament Psalm, we think about what David’s writing there. I feel like what David is doing, he’s just marveling at God and the greatness of God and His purposes, “How inscrutable his ways and his paths beyond tracing out,”(Paraphrase of Romans 11:33) Paul says in Romans 11.
I almost can picture him out under a starry night sky, and we’ve all had that experience. You look up and you just see, “When I consider the heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you established, I think, what am I?” And we know now with the Hubble space telescope, and all kinds of exploration and cosmology that scientists have studied, we realize we are incredibly small. We’re like atomically small. The universe is just immense. And as you keep going further and further and further and further away from the earth, and then from the solar system, and from the galaxy we’re in, and it just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and we’re like, “Where are we?” We just think, “What is man that you even care about us?” And that’s the thing. There’s a sense of the humiliation, the lowliness of human beings. We are insignificant compared to God, who made the heavens.
So, “When I consider the heavens the work of your fingers,” I think about the word fingers, the precision there, that God, like a skillful painter or a sculptor or even a concert level pianist, there’s a sense of precision and skill with the word fingers, where hand or arm might be more power. So, “When I consider the skillfulness with which you made the heavens and the earth, I think what is man?” And so there’s a humility here in David, “And yet,” there’s that word yet, however, “You’ve made us a little lower than the angels. You actually do care about us, because we’re created in the image of God.” So that’s the marvel, the scope. We are small compared to God and the universe, but we are great because God made us. So that’s what Psalm 8 is saying.
Joel
So then the author of Hebrews is going to use this Psalm to talk about the, you mentioned in the beginning of the humiliation, but then the exaltation of Jesus. So how does Jesus become a little lower than the angels, but then he’s exalted to the right hand of the Father?
Andy
Yeah, that’s a very good point. Let’s stick with human beings for just a moment. What’s amazing about biblical eschatology is that despite our insignificance, we’re going to outlast the stars. Think about that. It’s already said in Hebrews 1, “He’s going to roll them up like a garment and throw them away.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 1:12) We know in Revelation the stars are going to fall like figs from a fig tree, and we’ll still be here. So you’re like, “Wow, how could it be that we are more permanent, and in some sense, more powerful than the stars?” Because God made us so. You keep that in mind. But I think what’s happening here, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, is that there’s a temptation to look at a human being, to look at Jesus in his physicality, and the fact that he was born of a woman, he was wrapped up in swaddling clothes and laid in the manger, he grew up like a little boy, and he was a little boy, and he was a teenager, and he was a young man. And then at about the age 30, he began his public ministry, and he looked like any other man. Isaiah 53:2 says, “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.” There’s nothing spectacular about Jesus’s appearance, except one time when he was transfigured and his clothes became radiant like the light and his face shown like the sun. Other than that, he looked normal. And so you could think not just, “What is man that you are mindful of him?” it’s like, “What is Jesus that we should worship him as God?” This is the very argument Jesus’s enemies made against him. “He’s just a man. He gets dressed like the rest of us. He eats, he sleeps, he gets tired and he dies.” So how could God die?
So that’s the argument being made against Jesus. And so what the author is doing here is saying, “First of all, human beings aren’t what they appear to be. We are greater than you think we are. We are in the image of God and we don’t appear much, cause you’re so used to seeing people, but we are great because God has made us a little lower than the angels.” So that’s what he’s saying. “What is man, that you even mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him?”(Hebrews 2:6) Now, that phrase “son of man” should be familiar to any readers of the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus’ favorite expression for himself was Son of Man. And so Jesus is linking into this idea of, “I am fully human and therefore I am subject to the limitations of the human race.” But don’t be deceived. “Though for a little while I was made a little lower than the angels, still I am greater than the angels.” Just like for a little while we are under the starry heavens, but we’re going to outlast them. I think that’s what he’s doing here. He’s saying that Jesus is the quintessential human being. Don’t be deceived. He’s greater than he appears to be.
Joel
Yeah, I love that. Just talking about him crowned with glory and honor, putting everything into subjection under his feet, and you mentioned him as the quintessential human being. I think of how Jesus has reversed and undone all the shame and humiliation that Adam incurred for our race, and essentially handing over the keys of the world to the evil one.
Andy
We messed up. I mean, he represented us, and we blew it. We messed up and we sinned. And Jesus is now our representative. He is the Son of Man. He is the quintessential perfect human. And so everything that God intended when he said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the earth.”(Paraphrase of Genesis 1:26) The psalmist is thinking about that. Psalm 8, he’s thinking about, “We don’t look like much, but we’re in charge here.”
And so if you put, let’s say, a human being, side by side with a gorilla, you’re like, “Okay, gorilla wins.” It’s like, “Yeah, well don’t be so sure,” because the gorilla wins until the man pulls out a firearm which has harnessed metallurgy and chemistry and to make explosives, and the gorilla is dead within a few seconds. It’s like; it’s not what it appears. The gap between us and every other animal, in terms of intelligence and capability is almost immeasurable. I mean, there’s no porpoise, no dolphin, no chimp, no squirrel that’s even close to us, in terms of our capabilities.
But I would say the same thing is true of Jesus, in terms of the angels and all of us. The gap is just immeasurable, infinite. So don’t be deceived by appearances, I think of what Psalm 8 is saying. We are a little lower than the angels, and so Jesus, for a while, seemed less than the angels, like when he was sweating great drops of blood and an angel had to come and minister to him, or after his temptation in the desert and angels came and fed him and cared for him. Again, it seems like he’s lower than the angels, but actually he’s greater than they are.
Joel
Now it says, “In putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control.”(Hebrews 2:8) So we’ve talked about that, especially in Hebrews 1:3, how it says, “He upholds the universe by the word of his power,” but yet he says, “At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.”(Hebrews 2:8) So what’s going on with the world now and what is the reality behind it?
Andy
Well, I want to say, just, there’s something burning in my heart, is again, that definition of faith that God gave me some time ago. Faith is the eyesight of the soul. You have to see invisible things. And part of that is seeing the future. At present, it doesn’t seem like everything’s been subjected to Jesus, but when we get to the new Jerusalem, when we get to the new heaven and new earth, when the entire universe is irradiated by the glory of God through Jesus, the glory of God gives it light in the lamb as its lamp, we’ll see the greatness of Jesus then, we just don’t see it now. And why is that? Because we still got sin going on. We’ve still got rebellion. We’ve still got demons. We’ve still got decay and death, especially death.
So let’s focus in on death. The Father said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”(Hebrews 1:13) And so every one of Jesus’s enemies is going to be under his feet someday, but death isn’t under his feet right now, though Jesus himself escaped death and he tasted death for everyone, yet his people still die. Death is the final enemy. And so, at present, we don’t see death in subjection to Jesus. We just have to believe that it is. We have to believe that he rose from the dead. We don’t see evidence of that. We just read about it in the Bible and believe it.
And so, we see Jesus’s victory over death in the past by believing the gospel, and in the present by the fact that invisible souls of the redeemed are in happiness in heaven, and someday they’ll receive resurrection bodies. But especially in the future when he, himself is alive, and we can see him with our own eyes, and he’s on a throne of glory, and all the redeemed from every tribe, language, people, and nation are in resurrection bodies, we will see him triumph over death, then. So right now, we don’t see everything in subjection to Jesus, but we have a promise. “Sit at my right hand until I make all your enemies a footstool for your feet,”(Hebrews 1:13) and that’s going to be fulfilled.
Joel
Yeah, I think that’s huge, as we look at our world and just see all the suffering and sin, and people ask the questions on the problem of evil, if you look at… Whether it be natural destruction, totalitarian regimes, the oppression of Christ’s church, it doesn’t look on the outside as though Jesus is ruling the universe, but he is, and we see that by faith.
Andy
Again, I think one of the themes here of this podcast is appearances can be deceiving. Human beings aren’t all that they appear to be, and that we appear to be weak and mortal, and we are weak and mortal, but we have an incredible future. So all of this is based on faith in the promises of God.
So at present, we don’t see everything in subjection to Jesus. We see many people who don’t even know about Jesus, or who don’t believe in him, or denigrate him, openly rebel against him. So how are they in subjection to Jesus? How is he the king of kings and Lord of lords, when most of the kings and lords on earth do wickedness, and use their power to slaughter people, and to feather their own nests, and to establish their own glory, in direct defiance of Jesus? How do we see things in subjection to him? It doesn’t appear that they are, but again, appearances can be deceiving. Someday, he will reign openly on a throne of glory, and all of the kings, as it says in Daniel 7, “All kings and rulers will serve him.”(Paraphrase of Daniel 7:27)
Joel
Now, Hebrews 2:9 says, “But we see him, who for a little while is made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so by the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.” Now, there’s a lot packed into here, so I’m going to try to take it phrase by phrase, but let’s talk first about, “But we see him.” You just mentioned a few minutes ago that faith is the eyesight of the soul. So how does Scripture enable us to say, “But we see Him”? How does it give us a vision of Christ?
Andy
Yeah, this is a very, very important question. I’ve mentioned it several times in some of the earlier answers today. Faith is the eyesight of the soul. What do I mean by that? The ability to see invisible spiritual things. We have, in Ephesians 1:18, Paul prays that, “The eyes of your heart may be enlightened.” “The eyes of the heart.” That’s an interesting phrase. So I think with other verses coming in, like, “We walk by faith, not by sight.”(2 Corinthians 5:7) “We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen.”(2 Corinthians 4:18) There are many of these verses that link faith to sight. It’s not like I came up with it. It’s just reading verse like, “Oh, faith is the eyesight of the soul.”
And now this is a prime example here, Hebrews 2:9, “We see him.” How do we see him? Actually, 1 Peter 1:8 says we don’t see him, “Though we have not seen him, we love him; and even though we do not see him now, we believe in him.” He’s meaning, physically seeing. Peter means physically, we don’t see him now.
The author of Hebrews means we’re seeing him spiritually with the eyes of the heart. And we see it based on assertions made in the Bible, like right at the beginning of this book, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”(Hebrews 1:3) Well, there you go. Where’s Jesus? Sitting down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Do you see it? By faith, I do. By faith, I can see him seated at the right hand of God.
So that’s what it means by, “we see Jesus, now crowned with glory and honor.” Why? Because we believe the things that are said about him, even in this verse, “We see him, now crowned with glory and honor.”(Hebrews 2:9) Oh, he must be now crowned with glory and honor.
Joel
So picking up off of that, he says, “Crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death.”(Hebrews 2:9) So that phrase, “because of” is linking his glory and honor now with the suffering and death he experienced on the earth. How does Jesus’s crucifixion and atonement that he provided for his people, actually, essentially, he already had infinite glory before the incarnation and his road to the cross, but now it seems he has even more glory?
Andy
Yeah. Well, I think it’s just that history matters to God. It matters what actually happened in space and time. And when Jesus achieved the victory at the cross, the Father was well pleased with him and gave him a crown of glory and honor for having done it. He obeyed the Father, and the obedience was infinitely costly, more costly than any other human being’s obedience has ever been. It is immensely glorious what Jesus did, and he deserves the victor’s crown. He has won the right to take the scroll from the right hand of Him who sits on the throne. He, the Lamb of God, has triumphed and he is victorious. And so in Revelation 5, they’re celebrating with cascades of praise and glory that go to Jesus for dying on the cross and for his resurrection victory. So you look at that, it’s like, that’s the glory and honor He is crowned with. He won the right.
I want to say one thing about the word “Jesus,” too. It’s interesting. This is the first mention of the word “Jesus” in the book of Hebrews. We’ve been talking about the Son up to this point. And so Jesus is his human name. It’s the name that the angel gave to Joseph, that, “You’ll give him the name Jesus.”(Paraphrase of Matthew 1:21) It means, “The Lord saves,” but it’s the human name. Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter who walked the dusty roads. And so, he just uses the human name. “Jesus,” the human being, “we see now crowned with glory and honor.”
So that goes back to the Psalm 8 aspect. “What is man that you are mindful of him?”(Psalm 8:4) He’s just a human being, but he’s not. He is Jesus. That’s true. The Jesus of history, some of the liberal theologians, and the Christ of faith, they go into all this kind of poppycock. But at any rate, the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith are one and the same. And the Jesus who was born of the virgin, is also the Son spoken of at the beginning of this book, and he is now crowned with glory and honor. So I love the way the author of Hebrews says, “Jesus is now crowned with glory and honor.”
Joel
Now, he says this phrase that you alluded to earlier about, “By the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.”(Hebrews 2:9) I think this speaks to his work of atonement and bearing the wrath of God, right?
Andy
Absolutely.
Joel
So how does Jesus taste death for us?
Andy
Well, my mind goes immediately to Gethsemane when we’re speaking of a cup. And so, the cup would have wine in it, and Jesus was shrinking back. There was nothing delicious about it. It was bitter, infinitely bitter. And for Jesus to drink that cup, “Father, if it is possible, let this cup be taken from me. Yet not my will be done but yours.”(Paraphrase of Matthew 26:39) So this is the cup of death, and not just physical death, but eternal death. I mean, hell. Jesus drank hell for me and for you and for every believer. And so, he tasted eternal death and physical death for us. “The wages of sin is death.”(Romans 6:23) And so I think taste and drank would be similar concepts here. He drank it to its bitterest dregs.
“Jesus drank hell for me and for you and for every believer.”
He said, “It is finished.”(John 19:30) He finished the cup. There’s nothing more to do. And so, he tasted death for us. And if we mean eternal death, like hell, so that we wouldn’t have to. We will taste physical death, but Jesus drank that bitter cup to its bottom, and that includes the wrath of God. There’ll be no wrath for us. So he tasted death for us by the grace of God. So God, the Father, wanted him to drink that cup for us.
Joel
So we will never know the kind of death he drank.
Andy
No, we can’t. I mean, the infinite wrath of God, the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the regrets, the torture, the agony. These things were in some mysterious way, poured into Jesus’ infinite soul. And it’s staggering. It really is something. What else would cause someone like Jesus to recoil in horror and be knocked to the ground and sweat great drops of blood? It’s just indescribable, and he drank it for us. For everyone, the author says that, “By the grace of God, he might taste death for everyone.”(Hebrews 2:9) And that’s not universalism. It’s not every single solitary human being, but it’s every one of his children, the sons that he gave him, which the rest of this chapter will make clear.
Joel
Yeah, I think later it says, “It is not the angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.”(Hebrews 2:16) And just putting that together with other Scriptures, we know that the offspring of Abraham are the children of faith, those who receive the Son of God, those who are born of promise, not of the flesh. So do you have any final thoughts on this brief section?
Andy
Well, again, the big picture here is despite appearances, Jesus is glorious. Despite the appearances of his weakness and his humanity and his frailty, the fact that he was born and wrapped in swaddling clothes, and grew up and was a human just like anybody else. Despite all of that, he is infinitely glorious. And if we see him by faith, we can see him now crowned with glory and honor because of the triumph of his cross, and the empty tomb, because of the victory he won by dying for us. That’s how we should see Jesus. Appearances can be deceiving. Jesus is infinitely greater than he appeared to be.
Joel
Well, that was episode three in “Hebrews: Bible Study Questions, The Son of Man Crowned With Glory and Honor.” Next episode will be, “Jesus is Exalted Through Suffering.” Thank you for listening to the “Two Journeys Podcast,” and God bless you all.
