Daniel Podcast Episode 4: Faith Vindicated in a Trial by Fire

The biblical record of one of the most courageous stands of faith and spectacular miracles is when three men refused to worship any other god even under threat of death.

- PODCAST TRANSCRIPT -

Wes 

Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study podcast. This podcast is just one of the many resources available to you for free from Two Journeys Ministry. If you're interested in learning more, just head over to twojourneys.org. Now on to today's episode. This is episode four in our Daniel Bible Study podcast. This episode is entitled, Faith Vindicated in a Trial by Fire, where we'll discuss Daniel 3:1-30. I'm Wes Treadway, and I'm here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we're looking at today?

Andy

What a great and what a famous chapter. I think most people that know the Old Testament pretty well know the story of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and their amazing miraculous rescue by God from the fiery furnace. And so, we're going to talk about that today and show how ultimately God's concern here was to vindicate his holy name.

But we're also going to make a connection to the trials that we go through and how God is able to walk with us through those trials and give us confidence. The same God, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, is walking with you no matter what trial you're going through. So various things, lessons we can learn from this marvelous chapter.

Wes

Let me go ahead and read Daniel 3: 

"King Nebuchadnezzar made an image of gold whose height was 60 cubits and its breadth six cubits. He set it up on the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. Then King Nebuchadnezzar sent to gather the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces to come to the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Then the satraps, the prefects, and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the justices, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces gathered for the dedication of the image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. And they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

And the herald proclaimed aloud, 'You are commanded, O peoples, nations and languages, that when you hear the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. And whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace.'

Therefore, as soon as all the peoples heard the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, all the peoples, nations and languages fell down and worshiped the golden image that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up. Therefore, at that time, certain Chaldeans came forward and maliciously accused the Jews. They declared to King Nebuchadnezzar, 'O king, live forever! You, O king, have made a decree that every man who hears the sound of the horn, pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe, and every kind of music, shall fall down and worship the golden image. And whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast into a burning fiery furnace. There are certain Jews whom you have appointed over the affairs of the province of Babylon: Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. These men, O king, pay no attention to you; they do not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.' 

Then King Nebuchadnezzar in furious rage commanded that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego be brought. So they brought these men before the king. Nebuchadnezzar answered and said to them, 'Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the golden image that I have set up? Now, if you are ready when you hear the sound of the horn pipe, lyre, trigon, harp, bagpipe and every kind of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, well and good. But if you do not worship, you shall immediately be cast into a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you out of my hands?'

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answered and said to the king, 'O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter. If this be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of your hand, O king. But if not, be it known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.'

Then Nebuchadnezzar was filled with fury, and the expression of his face was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. He ordered the furnace heated seven times more than it was usually heated. And he ordered some of the mighty men of his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace. Then these men were bound in their cloaks, their tunics, their hats, and their other garments, and they were thrown into the burning fiery furnace. Because the king's order was urgent and the furnace overheated, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell bound into the burning fiery furnace.

Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished and rose up in haste. He declared to his counselors, 'Did we not cast three men bound into the fire?' They answered and said to the king, 'True, O king.' He answered and said, 'But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire and they are not hurt, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.'

Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the door of the burning fiery furnace; he declared, 'Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out and come here!' Then Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego came out from the fire. And the satraps, the prefects, the governors, and the king's counselors gathered together and saw that the fire had not had any power over the bodies of those men. The hair of their heads was not singed, their cloaks were not harmed, and no smell of fire had come upon them.

Nebuchadnezzar answered and said, 'Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who has sent his angel and delivered his servants, who trusted in him, and set aside the king's command, and yielded up their bodies rather than serve and worship any god except their own God. Therefore, I make a decree: Any people, nation or language that speaks anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego shall be torn limb from limb, and their houses laid in ruins, for there is no other god who is able to rescue in this way.' Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in the province of Babylon."

Andy, what was Nebuchadnezzar's goal in setting up this golden statue and forcing everyone to fall down and worship it? I'm mindful that last time we spoke about another statue, a statue in the King's vision, but this is different.What was his goal in setting this statue up and forcing others to fall down and worship?

Andy

Well, his idol is himself. His idol is his own power and authority. He wants to dominate. He is a tyrant, and he's going to get this addressed in the next chapter when Daniel gives him advice to renounce his tyranny. He is an oppressive tyrant. In chapter two, he's threatening to kill all the wise men and counselors in Babylon if they can't perform a miracle of telling him what his dream was and then interpreting it.

But you're right in connecting these two statues, I think. I don't think this is overtly, this connection is overtly made in the account from chapter two to three, but as we remember, Nebuchadnezzar had a dream representing human government and there was a head of gold, and he, Nebuchadnezzar was that head of gold. After him was another kingdom inferior to his represented by silver, chest and arms of silver. After that, belly and thighs of bronze. After that, legs of iron. After that, feet partly iron, partly clay.

This represented a flow of human history. Nebuchadnezzar, by making a nothing but gold statue here to some degree is saying, "There's going to be nothing after me." Over and over the sycophants that would come into the presence of a king would say the same thing every time, "Oh, king lived forever." I think Nebuchadnezzar wanted to live forever.

He wanted it to be just the head of gold, and so he makes this nothing but gold statue. But aside from that, that's just speculation on my part, at least this much is true, he's unifying all of his counselors and government officials and the general population there in Babylon, is unifying them around his command to worship as he sees fit. He is compelling a religion and forcing it on them as a means of complete subservience to his authority.

Wes

Now, what do we learn from the dimensions of the statue in verse one and where was it set up?

Andy

Yeah. It's given as 60 cubits high, six cubits wide, which is 90 feet high, nine feet wide. 90 feet is effectively an eight or nine story building. I mean, that's quite tall. And nine feet wide is remarkably thin, so it's got a one to 10 ratio. It's like a needle or something like that, so it's a bit odd. But it's what he wanted. And it's set up in this plain where all the people can kind of gather around it and gawk at it. It's made of gold, so it's attractive and glittery and shiny and precious, but fundamentally it's set up as a focal point of their worship.

Wes 

Now, who was summoned to worship and why, and did they obey this summons?

Andy

Okay, these are government officials. It's the satraps, prefects, governors, advisors, treasurers, judges, magistrates, and all the other provincial officials. So not the general population of the entire Empire City, but these are a lot of the population of the city. They're government officials. And so he basically wants complete compliance on the part of his officials to bow down and worship at whatever he tells them to worship.

Wes

What was the role of the herald in this situation? And the music, and why do you think Nebuchadnezzar did it the way that he did?

Andy

Well, the herald's job is to say what the purpose of the statue was. So, they come and there's this glittery, shiny thing. They must have seen it while it was being built. It's like, "All right, what's the point?" Now the herald's job is to say, "Now I'm going to tell you what the point is." When you hear the sound of, and there's a listing of musical instruments, what's a trigon?

Wes

I was trying to figure that out. As I was reading the passage, I was like, "Trigon, it's not a triangle." I don't know.

Andy

Well, the two words that you had, you had trigon and lyre. Mine says lyre and harp, so it's probably-

Wes

All right.

Andy

... some kind of string instrument.

Wes 

There we go.

Andy 

But anyway, when you hear this sign, the sound, sorry, of all the different instruments, you are to immediately bow down and worship. And if you don't, you'll be thrown into the fiery furnace. So, the herald's job is to tell them what they are to do and get them ready for the signal. And at the signal they all bow down. And so, the sense of his job is, he is the mouthpiece, the representative of King Nebuchadnezzar.

Wes

Now, the penalty for disobedience is harsh. Why would that be the case?

Andy

Yeah, it's death. I mean, they're going to be executed, and they're going to be executed by burning, which is a horrible way to die, and they're going to be thrown into this fiery furnace. And so, it's definitely a fear factor. It's the intimidation of a tyrannical government, "I'm going to kill you if you don't obey me."

Wes 

Now, all of this really sets up the outcome that is essentially setting the stage for the remainder of the chapter that we'll look at in just a moment. What was the outcome according to verse seven of all of this setup, the building of the image, the calling out of the herald, the playing of the music. What is the outcome?

Andy

Yeah, everybody obeyed. I mean, they all did. And they're not worshiping. I mean, what's there to worship? There's no history, no heritage, nothing. It's not like the god that they're bowing down has a myth or a narrative. What they're worshiping is their own safety and their own lives, their own comfortable lives.

They're going to do whatever it takes to stay alive. I mean, who wouldn't? And so, what we get out of verse seven is everybody obeyed. That makes Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego stick out. So, they're all bowed down, and these three are standing straight up, and so it's really a very clear contrast. So, verse seven gives the contrast: everybody's bowed down except these three.

Wes 

Now, verse eight says that at that time certain Chaldeans came forward and maliciously accused the Jews. Why does the account focus on the denunciation of the Jews and not merely against these three men who will be the focus of the rest of the account?

Andy

Well, the Jews are the focus of God's work in the Old Testament. Once the call of Abraham went out from Ur of the Chaldeans, God focused his saving work on the Jewish nation. Now, where are we at in Jewish history? We are now in the exile to Babylon. And so, the issue is do the Jews as such, as a nation, have a continued history? Is there going to be more yet to come, or is God done with the Jews? And the book of Daniel steps in after the book of Jeremiah and Lamentations to say, "No, it's not ending yet. God still has a saving intention toward the Jews." As Jesus will say to the Samaritan woman, "Salvation is from the Jews." That word needs to mean something half a millennial later.

And so fundamentally, the denunciation of the Jews here, similar in the book of Esther as it's genocidal, they want to wipe out the Jews, Haman does. And so, the fact is the Jews continue to go on. Despite the exile, God still has a saving and a loving intention toward the Jews. So, their attack is antisemitism, no doubt about it. They're also jealous because these particular Jews, along with Daniel, are in a very powerful position, and they're probably jealous of them. And so, there's a racial aspect, a religious aspect, and a jealousy, a human aspect.

" Despite the exile, God still has a saving and a loving intention toward the Jews."

Wes

Now verses nine through 12, give us the content of the accusation. What motivates the accusers? You mentioned some of the motivations just a moment ago. And how do they make their case here?

Andy

Well, they say in verse 12, "There are some Jews whom you, Nebuchadnezzar, have set over the affairs of Babylon." And I think they're annoyed at it. They're ticked at it. They maybe got bypassed, and so they're jealous. And then there's that racial aspect where they're Jews, and they don't like them, and there's somewhat of a questioning, a rather courageous questioning of Nebuchadnezzar having done that, like they implied that he had made a mistake.

And so fundamentally they're denouncing them. And they're going beyond the truth. They say, "They pay no attention to you, O king." That's just not true. It's going to be very obvious at the end when they're in the furnace, and the king commands them to come out, they obey. And so, they are submissive, they're obedient, but they're not going to violate their conscience or the laws of God.

Wes 

And what was Nebuchadnezzar's response to this accusation, and why does he respond the way that he does?

Andy

I think he believes them, and he is ready to go. I think this whole thing is defiant to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Think about chapter two, and the lesson is that God rules sovereignly over the rise and fall of nations, and he is going to set up a kingdom that can never be destroyed and will not be left to anyone else - different than your king, kingdom, Nebuchadnezzar. God is a greater king than you are. And he was willing to yield to it at the end of chapter two, but now he's doubling back and kind of angry about it. And so, he believes the denunciation, and he's filled with rage. He's angry, unreasonably angry, but he's going to get even angrier later in the account.

Wes 

One of the things that's striking as we read through this passage is the repetition, whether it's the listing of instruments or the requirements of them to bow down and worship or the consequences, the account has quite a bit of repetition in it.

Andy

Yeah.

Wes

Why is that the case? As the three Hebrews are brought before the king, he reiterates the issues already clearly covered. What does verse 15, "What god will be able to rescue you from my hand," teach us about Nebuchadnezzar's true motives in all of this?

Andy

Well, that is devastating. I mean, the arrogance, the fact that it really is a direct head-to-head competition between Nebuchadnezzar and God. And it very much reminds us as readers of the Bible of Pharaoh when Moses came and said, "This is what the Lord says, 'Let my people go.'" And Pharaoh says, "Who is the Lord? I don't know who he is, and I'm not going to obey him."

Who is the Lord? This is a similar version of the same question, "Who is the god, or what is the god that's going to be able to deliver you from my hand?" It's actually almost exactly the same as the king of Assyria who comes in Hezekiah's day saying, "Look, what god has ever been able to save his people from me? I am the god, I'm the practical real god of this age, and I have direct physical power here. Your god, I don't even know if he exists, and I don't think any god is going to be able to rescue you from the fiery furnace." So, it's an arrogant statement. 

Also, big picture, I think it's a statement that saves their lives because God is going to be highly motivated by this statement. God is zealous for his own glory. And not because he's needy, but because when he makes much of his own name and his own greatness, people get saved.

"God is zealous for his own glory. And not because he's needy, but because when he makes much of his own name and his own greatness, people get saved."

Wes

Yeah. And the call really to be worshiped as the one true God, to be glorified above all others. So, as we get this repetition of the things that the king is demanding for himself, it almost highlights the chasm between Nebuchadnezzar's view of himself and reality, and that God is reigning overall and deserving of all worship. How do Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego answer the king, and why do they contend that they do not need to defend themselves before the king?

Andy

That's really, they have no fear at all. It's remarkable. Their faith has driven out fear. They're ready to die if need be. And they begin by saying, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer in this matter. Your command is wicked, and God sees it, and we don't need to answer you. We don't need to obey you. We don't need to do anything about this. Fundamentally, the God that we worship and serve, the God who made the heaven, the earth, the sea and everything in them, that God has commanded us not to make idols or bow down to idols or worship any other god. And that's enough for us. Fundamentally, we do not need to answer you, and we will not obey you." Fundamentally, that's their answer.

Wes 

What do verses 17 and 18 teach us about the faith of these three?

Andy

Yeah. They believe that God is able to deliver them and save them, which he is. And here's the thing, if you believe in Genesis 1:1, you can believe all of the lesser actions including the resurrection of Christ. It is less for Jesus's dead body to be raised to life than it is for God, the Father, Son, and the Spirit to create an entire universe out of nothing.

"If you believe in Genesis 1:1, you can believe all of the lesser actions including the resurrection of Christ. It is less for Jesus's dead body to be raised to life than it is for God, the Father, Son, and the Spirit to create an entire universe out of nothing."

And so, if you can believe in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, you can believe that God made an ax head float or changed water into wine or five loaves and two fish fed a whole huge crowd, or that these people were delivered from a fiery furnace. God can do anything. And Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego believe that. They believe that God can do anything. So fundamentally, their faith has driven out any fear.

"If we are thrown into that burning fiery furnace, the God whom we serve is able to deliver us, we are absolutely convinced of that. But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, we are not going to bow down to the idol." So, I thought much about Job 13:15, which says, "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him." This is a different statement. It's, "Though he slays us, yet will we obey him."

Paul adds in Philippians, "Though he slay me, yet will I rejoice in him. Because it's better by far to be with Christ." And so fundamentally this is kind of a progression. So right here they're saying, "Look, God is able to save us, but even if he doesn't, we want you to know we're still not going to disobey him. We're going to obey God." By the way, this is a very important thing for Christians to say, if you have cancer, if you're going through a trial, "Even if God doesn't heal me, I'm still going to obey him and love him."

Wes 

What did the stoking of the fire show about Nebuchadnezzar's mind at this point?

Andy

Well, frankly, rage, anger is like a drug. It's like being drunk. People get angry, and then later they cool down and they say, effectively like a drunk waking up from his binge, "What did I do? What did I do?" And so, there's an unreasoning aspect here. And it's going to be even more acute in the next chapter where he becomes an unreasoning beast. So, there's something extremely unreasonable about sin. And especially carnal anger makes you crazy, makes you do stupid things.

What do we mean? Commanding the furnace to be stoked up seven times hotter than usual doesn't make much sense because it means an instant and quick death rather than a slow and torturous death. Back in the days of the martyrs that are listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, there are a number of sadistic tortures that killed Protestant martyrs with green wood.

And so they used really soft spongy wet wood that smoldered and didn't give off a hot flame. And they even would douse it a little bit with water to keep the fire going so that their torture was exquisite. So if he had really wanted to punish these men, he would've done something like that. Instead, he's just filled with rage, and he's not thinking clearly.

Wes 

Verses 20-22, give us the nature of this execution, how it's carried out. How was it carried out? Why does the account mention the robes, trousers and other clothing? And how what happened to the soldiers who threw them in serve to glorify God in this account?

Andy 

Right. So, the furnace is heated seven times hotter. The command went to some of the strongest, most powerful soldiers in Nebuchadnezzar's army, some of his Praetorian guard, this kind of thing, because they're the ones that would've been right there, the king's bodyguard. And they are powerful men, and they tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego with their trousers and turbans and all kinds of dangling clothes.

And I think the reason is these things are just eminently combustible. I think that's why they're mentioned, and it's going to be talked about after they're brought out of the furnace. But the king's command, it says, is so urgent, and the furnace was so hot that the men who threw Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego bound, tied up with all their clothing into the furnace, which was seven times hotter than usual, were instantly burned to death. And so that is the unreasoning nature of this. But it also shows just how powerful this furnace was and what a great miracle it was that these men survived.

Wes

After Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego fall bound into the burning fiery furnace, what does Nebuchadnezzar see? And was he able to enforce the command that he issues next in verse 26?

Andy

Well, all right, so he's watching, I guess. I don't know how to picture this furnace, but he can look in and he sees them walking around. So, this is like some kind of a room or something like that, this furnace. It wasn't just some little thing, there's room for all three of them and another, a fourth who looked like a son of the gods. But the king's amazed, and he looks in, onlooking, and he sees these men walking around, and they're totally comfortable.

They're walking around unfettered, and he's amazed, and he cries out to other people around. He said, "Weren't there three men that we tied up and threw into the furnace?" "Certainly, O king." He says, "Well, I see four men walking around unbound." And the fourth, he says, "Looks like a son of the gods." Now I don't know what that means except that I know that when Saul of Tarsus was converted, one of his three testimonies in the book of Acts says, "A light was shining brighter than the sun."

So, God is able to do bright light. So, we could imagine the fourth was a brilliant radiant being. Now this could be either the pre-incarnate Christ or an angel. It doesn't matter, it doesn't say. But I like to think of it as the pre-incarnate Christ. And the flames are not hurting them at all. Now, why? I don't really know. I just know that God was able to surround them with a boundary of protection whereby the heat brought them no discomfort.

I can well imagine God deciding what would be the perfect temperature for them. So, 72 or 71, something like that, something comfortable. They weren't even sweating. There was nothing. It was just completely comfortable. And so there they are. And then the king was amazed and then gave this command, "Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, servants of the Most High God, come out, come here." And they came out.

Now that command from the king is absolutely unenforceable. Well, what's he going to do? Send three more of his more powerful soldiers? They would've been burned before they got even close. But here's the point, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were not generally rebellious, but submissive to God. They were submissive to the king where they could, but they just couldn't obey this immoral command.

And so that shows in general, we must, as Romans 13 says, submit ourselves to the governing authorities when we can. But if they command something immoral, we are to defy it and to disobey. And so, they are generally submissive to Nebuchadnezzar. And so, they do obey, they come out, but it is a little bit humorous. Imagine if they had said, "Why don't you come in here and get us?" That would've been very sassy and disrespectful.

Wes 

What was the reaction of the royal officials and King Nebuchadnezzar to this miracle?

Andy

Well, they gather around them, and they notice that not a hair of their heads is singed, nothing. I mean, there's no smell of fire on them. Their clothing is fine. It's amazing. It's like it never even happened. And so, it just shows the power of God and also the intentionality of God when individuals are martyred. Paul says, "I am being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure." It's God that does that ultimately.

Yeah, it is humans that do it, but it is God that permits it and receives it. Or again, it says in Romans 8, "All day long, we are considered as sheep for the slaughter." Considered by who? Well, in the original Psalm, it's by the prosecutors and the violent. But in Romans 8, it's by God. God considers us sheep for the slaughter like he did his own Son.

Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. God is willing to pour his own people out unto death from time to time. He doesn't love them any less just because he doesn't rescue them. But God could rescue them just like he rescued Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. So that's what we see. There's an intentionality here for God to rescue them, to vindicate his own name, answering verse fifteen's question, "What god will be able to rescue from my hand?"

But we also know there's intentionality in everything God does. One thing that hit me about this passage is how similar to Isaiah 43 this account goes. Now we need to remember Isaiah was written before the exile to Babylon, and in Isaiah 40-66, the whole second half or portion of Isaiah, it's mostly about God's power to restore Israel after their exile.

If we look a lot, look at that again and again, it's God is able to make streams flow in the desert. He's able to make plants spring up in a dry wasteland. He's able to make a shoot come up from the stump of Jesse. So that's all post-exilic language. And the exile itself is like a fiery furnace that Israel had to go through. And he says in Isaiah 43, "But now this is what the Lord says. 'He who created you O Jacob, he who formed you O Israel, fear not for I have redeemed you. I have summoned you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. And when you walk through the fire, you'll not be burned. The flames will not set you ablaze.'" Well, I don't think there's any passage in scripture so literally fulfilled as "I will be with you, and when you go through the fire, they will not set you a blaze." That's what happened with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. For us, it's more metaphoric. We go through, as Peter calls it, "The fiery trial" that we're going through like a crucible. Our faith is being tested. We go through the fire. God is with us. He walks with it through us. That's what Emmanuel, Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us, means. He walks with us through the trial we're going through.

Wes

What does verse 29 teach us about Nebuchadnezzar's heart? And why do you think Nebuchadnezzar promoted these men at the end of the chapter? Very similar actually to how the last chapter ended.

Andy

Well, I believe that Nebuchadnezzar is in heaven, and I believe he's an amazing trophy of God's grace. But he was stubborn and tough. He's strong-minded. He's a tyrant. He's a conquering king. And so, this is another step, I think, in his conversion process. Chapter 2 was, chapter 3 as well. And so, he's amazed. And he worships, he praises God. "Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, whoever he is, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants. They trusted in him and defied the king's command, and they were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God. And therefore, I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego be cut into pieces and their house is turned into piles of rubble for no other God can save in this way."

Clearly, Nebuchadnezzar does not practice religious freedom. All right? Fundamentally it's like, "All right, we're going to get very serious here about that." As he did in chapter 2, he ordered that everyone should honor and reverence the God of Daniel, et cetera. So, it's really remarkable here. So, I think his heart is on a journey, all right? He's in process, and God is working in him.

Wes 

What final thoughts do you have for us on this passage that we've looked at?

Andy

Well, I have a very powerful final thought. It had to do with a mission trip I made to Haiti. And I may have mentioned this in the earlier time in Daniel, but if not, this is a story that stuck with me very acutely. And it goes right from Daniel 3. While I was there teaching in Haiti, there was a young man, a youth, a teenager, a Haitian young man who had an American T-shirt on referring to a song, I think, a worship song that's connected to the events of Daniel 3.

And I don't remember the three words, but something like, "They didn't bow, they didn't bend, they didn't burn," something like that. I don't remember how it went, but that was the language of it. Well, this young man had very little biblical knowledge. He was just wearing a T-shirt that he got somehow. And through a translator, I asked, "Do you understand what's on your shirt?" "No, just a shirt."

"So let me tell you the story. Let me tell you the story." And I went through this whole story about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and how they refuse to bow to the king's idol. And God, I mean Nebuchadnezzar threw them into a fiery furnace. But before that, he had made this arrogant boast. He said, "What god will be able to rescue you from my hand", namely from the fiery furnace?

And so they were amazed at the story. They hadn't heard it before, they weren't well biblically trained, and it was a pretty exciting story. But then under leadership, I think of the Holy Spirit, I turned the whole thing around, and I thought about Romans, which says, "If God is for us, who could be against us? But if God is against you, who could be for you?"

God is everything. So, here's the thing, imagine if God throws you into a fiery furnace, who will be able to rescue you from God's hand? And I said that to the Haitians, and they all answered with one voice, "No one, no one." If God throws you into hell, there is no escape. And I directly tied it to the fires of hell where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. But there is an answer.

There is someone that can rescue from God's hand, and that is God himself. God himself is the only one that can rescue from God's hand, and he does that through Christ. And if we trust in Christ, we'll be delivered from the real fiery furnace. And that is the wrath of God and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. That is a fire that is never quenched. And there should be a fear and a terror of all sinners, of all unbelieving sinners, of the terrors of hell. And this question, "Who will be able to rescue from God's hand?" should press in on their minds. And that was a very impactful moment there in Haiti. So that stuck with me.

"God himself is the only one that can rescue from God's hand, and he does that through Christ. And if we trust in Christ, we'll be delivered from the real fiery furnace."

Wes

Well, this has been episode four in our Daniel Bible Study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for episode five entitled, God Humbles Nebuchadnezzar and Us, where we'll discuss Daniel 4:1-37. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.