John beholds the new Jerusalem descending from heaven irradiated by the glory of God, welcoming the redeemed. The heavenly city is blood-bought and prepared by Jesus Christ.
Wes
Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study podcast. This is Episode 30 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast, entitled The New Jerusalem, where we’ll discuss Revelation 21:9-27. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Wes, what could be more exciting than studying heaven? Studying the New Jerusalem, studying the infinite complexity and beauty and imagery and the symbolism of Revelation 21. I’m thrilled to walk through it. These themes have captivated me for years, and I hope you and I can get a little bit of it in this podcast as we study the New Jerusalem. And talk about really the heavenly architecture of it, the city and its rules and its openness and its worship, and all of those things. Should be an awesome time.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read verses 9-27, in Revelation 21.
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit, to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates, twelve angels, and on the gates, the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed- on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal. He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day- and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Andy, what’s the significance of the angel’s statement, the Bride, the wife of the Lamb, and in what sense is a city also a bride?
Andy
Well, Wes, those are great questions, and they fulfill a lot of deep and rich biblical themes. So, let’s start simply with the fact that in the Old Testament, Israel, the nation of Israel, is sometimes depicted as the bride of God. And we have the great disappointment, the tragedy of the unfaithfulness of the bride, of the wife of God, Israel, in Ezekiel 16, especially, the wayward ways of the city of Jerusalem. And it’s heartbreaking when you read Ezekiel 16 and how God’s heart is broken.
But we have a contrast with that now with the new Jerusalem, a pure and beautiful bride, made ready for the wedding, with the bridegroom who is Jesus. And so that image is consummated and perfected. We also have a contrast, as we saw earlier, with the whore of Babylon, and the same kind of language. Then the angel said, “Come I will show you, ….” So, I’ll show you the great whore of Babylon, and then come, I’ll show you the bride of the Lamb. So, there’s a contrast between the wicked, immoral and impure people of the world, kind of organized together into the whore of Babylon. And then you’ve got the bride of Christ, which are the redeemed. And also we have that beautiful language concerning marriage, in Ephesians 5:25-27, where it says, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her, to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water, through the word, to present her to himself, as a radiant church without stain, a wrinkle, or any other blemish but holy and blameless.”
That’s perfected here in Revelation 21. She is done. She has been made beautiful, she has been completely washed and cleansed and purified and made ready for this great wedding. And so, she descends from heaven, adorned. And so, the work done on her, has been done in heaven, ultimately by God, through Christ. And so, Christ got her ready. He got her dress, which is very different than most weddings, as I’ve noted before. Bridegrooms don’t know much about cosmetics and hair and the attire, she’s on that, and her mother; the bridegroom is not qualified. But this bridegroom is eminently qualified. He is the one who speaks the word beautifully, as it says in Isaiah 62, “For Zion’s sake, I will not keep silent until her radiance shines forth like the dawn.” We get that same image. Wes, there are a lot of images completed here in Revelation 21.
Wes
And that language even of Zion, thinking of maybe a mountain, there’s a connection here, a bride, a mountain, a city. So, there’s a number of images here being used of the people of God.
Andy
Sure. I want to double-click on that again. You asked how could a city be a bride? And so first of all, in simple conception, a city is a lot of people together in a common society. And so, we are a mass of human beings redeemed from every tribe, language, people, and nation, brought together. But we maintain our individuality just as the persons of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit, maintain their individuality, and yet are perfectly one. In the same way, the church, we all maintain our individuality, but we are perfectly one. And so, the image of a city makes sense, a teeming city, with millions and millions of people there. And so, it’s a lot of people, but it’s one. And so, we all have one heart, and one mind, and that focus is love for Jesus. We have a bride’s love for Jesus. And that bride is a submissive, yielding, he’s the initiator, we the responder. It’s a feminine role that’s given, and we all can understand that and accept it.
And so, we have a city that is a bride. We also have a similar image in Galatians where Paul talks about the Jerusalem that is above, as our mother. And so, there’s a mother image. There’s lots of complex images here. And why is that? It’s because not just one image is sufficient to capture what the church is. She’s a city, she’s a bride, she’s a population, she’s a kingdom of priests. All of these things are images for the church.
Wes
And then “above and below,” that locational language, if you will, is not insignificant here in verse 10. We want to try and understand what John means when, he says he’s brought in the Spirit, and the significance of the fact that the new Jerusalem was descending out of heaven from God.
Andy
Yeah, it’s a beautiful thing. Also, I want to say, and we’re going to get into it in this chapter, there’s a physicality to all this. It’s easy to see the symbolic language, but let’s not forget that Jesus was raised in a body you could touch. A spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have, do you have anything here to eat? Yes, we have some broiled fish. He took it, chewed it, and swallowed it. All right, so we’re going to have resurrection bodies like that. We got to go somewhere. And so yeah, there’s symbolic imagery here for the new Jerusalem, but there’s these cubits, and this measurement, we’ll talk about all that. But there’s got to be a place for it. And so, all of that, for all the symbolism, we can’t deny there is a physicality here. Now in terms of the image, the vision. First of all, it’s just so beautiful. The Holy Spirit gives us all a vision of something that hasn’t happened yet. And we can see this visionary language, “Come, I will show you.” And he takes John to a mountain great and high. And so, there’s that visionary language.
Also, this was huge for me in my writing of my book, The Glory Now Revealed, is I believe in a backward vision. This is a forward-looking vision, which we’re seeing by vision, what is yet to come. But I believe, in heaven, there’ll be a backward vision of seeing how she was built, over 6,000 years of redemptive history, everything God did to put that city together. And so, you asked about it descending from heaven. And I already said that Jesus has been working on her from heaven. We know this from John 14 where he says, “In my father’s house are many rooms. If were not, so I would’ve told you, for I am going to prepare a place for you. If I prepare a place for you, I’ll come and take you to be with me, so you also may be where I am.” And so, here’s how I see it.
The place is the new Jerusalem. We are the spiritual temple, Ephesians 2, in which God dwells by the Spirit. He’s been preparing her for 2000 years, or actually longer, because Old Testament saints, he’s been getting her ready by the work of the gospel, by the proclamation of the gospel. He’s getting her ready by justification, sanctification, and glorification of each of the elect. And little by little by little, she’s getting bigger and more glorious and more detailed and more perfected. And then when this moment comes, and she descends, she’s done. All the elect have been glorified. And so, she’s finished, and ready now for dwelling between God and his people. So that’s that descending image. The work was done in heaven by God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.
Wes
Now John also calls the city holy. What does that mean, and why is it important, in light of all that we’ve just been discussing?
Andy
All right, so Jerusalem was called the holy city in the Old Testament. And the word holy means set apart unto God. I think you get all the vessels that are used in the animal sacrifice, and they’re titled holy to the Lord. And also the anointing oil, and the incense was holy to the Lord, meaning it could only be used for the religion, for the worship. And so, it couldn’t be used for private use. A woman couldn’t say, “Hey, that smells good. I’d like some for Christmas.” Well, they didn’t do Christmas in the Old Testament, but anyway, I would like some of that. No, no, no, you couldn’t do that. It was holy to the Lord. It was for him; it was set apart under God. So, there’s that sense of holiness. And there’s also the complete freedom from evil. There’s literally no darkness in her at all. Just like God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all, so Jerusalem will be light. And in Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem, there’ll be no darkness at all. She is holy, completely free from evil.
Wes
And that’s really picked up in verse 11 where we get this description of the new Jerusalem. How does verse 11 describe the new Jerusalem, and what is the ultimate source of the city’s brilliance?
Andy
heaven will be an eternal education in the glory of God.
Okay, so this is key to everything here. The new Jerusalem is shining, is glowing with the glory of God. This is a very, very important statement. She’s radiant with the glory of God. And so, the things that follow, all of the precious stones of various colors, the street of gold, which is transparent gold, which is, we’ll talk about that I’m sure in a moment. But the idea is, everything glows with the same light, and the light is the glory of God. Now the different colors are refracted and show different aspects of the glory of God. But what is the glory of God? And this was key again in my book on heaven, The Glory Now Revealed, that heaven will be an eternal education in the glory of God. But I had to define glory of God. What is it? It is a radiant display of the perfections of God. What are the perfections of God? The attributes of God. For example, God’s omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, his aseity, his self-existence. That’s an attribute of God, his wisdom, his love, his patience, his wrath, his justice.
These are attributes of God. So, the city will exist to put God fully on display. And so that’s why we have to have a backward look into history, because some of those attributes will never be needed again. God will never need patience again with the redeemed, in the new heaven, new earth, because we’re not going to tax his patience.
We will do everything right all the time, like Jesus. We won’t need mercy from God, we won’t need compassion from God, because we won’t suffer. We won’t need grace from God, new effusions of grace, because we won’t sin. And so therefore, if we’re going to celebrate these attributes, we have to look back at how God’s grace, and mercy, and patience, and power were on display in the past. And so, the city is there for that. But it goes back to the original intention of God. We believe in creation at the start, God created all things, for the display of his glory, and then he redeemed us for the display and for the praise of his glorious grace. And so, all of this is there to put God on display. So, everything’s shining, it’s radiant, it’s brilliant, with the glory of God.
Wes
Let’s talk through verses 12-14, in the sense that they give us of the city. How do the names on the gates, the names on the 12 foundations relate? What’s symbolized by what’s described in verses 12-14 here?
Andy
All right, so it says, it had a great high wall with 12 gates and with 12 angels at the gates. All right, so first the concept of a great high wall is absolute security and safety. All right, so if you are in a citadel, such as we’re told by Herodotus, ancient Babylon, it had unbelievably high walls, and they were so thick at the base that at the top you could drive a chariot of four horses at the top of the wall. That’s how wide it was. So, it’s unbelievable walls around Babylon. These we would imagine are greater, and the idea is absolute security. And yet we’re going to be told, the gates always stand open, because there are no external threats. Why? Because all of the external threats, the devil, and his angels, and all the unredeemed, the reprobate are in hell, they’re in the lake of fire, they’re never getting out.
There’s a great chasm, separating hell from everything else, and nothing can cross. And so, there is no need to shut the gate. So then why the great wall? I think it’s just a sense of the security of the new Jerusalem, like the hymn, “Glorious things of thee are spoken, on the rock of ages founded, what can shake thy sure repose, with salvation’s wall surrounded, thou mayest smile at all thy foes.” Sense of absolute security in that hymn. Well, this is the consummation of that security. So, a great wall, high, but the gates are always standing open, so there’s no threats. Then we’ve got 12 gates and 12 angels at the gates. There’s a watchfulness there, but then again, no need, because there’s no enemies on the outside, and yet there they are. On the gates are written the names of the 12 tribes of Israel.
And on the foundation, there are 12 foundations, and the names of those are the 12 apostles of the Lamb. So, what I get out of that is the significance of history. The Bible is rich with history. The Old Testament is rich with history. And so, the idea is, the human beings who did this and that and the other and played different roles will be remembered and celebrated in the new Jerusalem. I’m not saying that these names won’t be literally inscribed. I think wherever we can, if it’s possible to think anything being done literally it’s beneficial. Because once you sever the tie of literalism, and then you’re into pure symbolism, it’s hard to even keep your footing in this chapter. So, I believe that we could see actual literalness, but the significance is human beings, their lives, their works, contributed to the building of this city. Our works went into building it. And so, we are used and remembered, and again in my book on heaven, I think the backward look is also to celebrate the good works of men and women who served God. Now we know that the 12 tribes, those were no great people, these were the ones that were jealous of Joseph and sold him into slavery. So again, there’s a sense of the corruption of human beings, and yet God’s grace overcoming their corruption and still using them.
Same thing with the apostles. Now of course you’re going to say, now which 12? Is it Matthias, or is it Paul? Does he have his own little special corner, or what? I don’t know and I don’t know. And then I don’t know. But at any rate, I think what I get out of this, is the significance of human history, and human works in building the new Jerusalem.
Wes
It reminds me of 1 Peter 2, that talks about living stones being built into the walls of this spiritual house. So, you get a sense of that with these names, written to record the acts of real people, who are put into this building, the work that God is doing.
Andy
Also, I want to share a personal anecdote. When I was a student at MIT, in Cambridge, there’s a place called Killian Court. And there inscribed up high on the fourth story in granite (the building was made in the early part of the 20th century, I think before World War I), were inscribed names of the great heroes of science, up to that point. Now of course there’ve been many heroes of science since then, but it was made at a certain time.
Wes
They were too late.
Andy
Too late, they lived too late to be inscribed in Killian court. And so, then you had the big names and then smaller names. So, the size of the font corresponded to the committee that was making these decisions and their estimation of the significance of this or that or the other. So, Newton, for example, one of the great names in the history of science, and Ben Franklin, Archimedes, some of these others, that made great contributions to science, and all of them are listed. So, I think the inscribing of these names is the fact that there will be honors given in heaven for the great ones, great men and women, who suffered greatly, served greatly, contributed greatly, by their loyalty to Christ. So that’s an incentive to great works, while we live.
Wes
Now verses 15-21, give us a more detailed description of the city. What sense does this section give us about the new Jerusalem?
Andy
All right, so going back to the fact, the physicality of it, we have to be somewhere, we will take up space. It is mysterious, because the resurrection body, Jesus’ resurrection body, seems to defy physics, at some points. In other cases, it absolutely fits physics. It’s like touch me and see, a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. I would say, yes Lord, amen, Lord. But flesh and bone doesn’t pass through walls or disappear.
Wes
Or just appear.
Andy
So, it’s both/and, not either/or. So, it’s both physical, and then it’s a spiritual body. So, what I get out of the measurements, is how physical this whole thing is. I also get boundaries. We will still be limited. God is limitless, we will be limited. And so, I think about boundary lines as it says in Psalm 16, the boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places, surely have a delightful inheritance from the Lord. And so, the measurement gives a sense of an allotted space for the city. It’s got a certain space, but it’s massively huge. So, it’s measured out. It’s limited, but big, really big. And how big? Well, it says 12,000 stadia. So that translates to about 1,450 miles, something like that. It’s almost half continental US. So, I remember kind of laying out a footprint on the continental US. It went from Orlando, Florida to Abilene, Texas, and then up to the Canadian, beyond the Canadian border. I mean that’s the base footprint of the city.
Wes
That’s a big city.
Andy
It is big, and then stranger than all, it’s as high as it is wide and long. So, it’s a perfect cube, that just doesn’t … I don’t know, it boggles the imagination. It goes out into beyond where satellites orbit, way, way beyond. They’re much lower than 1500 miles in orbit. So, it’s just way out there, way up there.
Wes
Wow.
Andy
And so, I don’t know how long an elevator takes to get from the ground floor to one of the skyscrapers, or if that’s even ridiculous to talk about. I’m sure it is. But it’s just a huge, huge city. And so, each of us has some inheritance within that city. Obviously, the language seems to beg symbolism, because 12,000, the number 12 is just that number, 12. And then you got thousand, which is 10 times 10 times 10, 10 cubed. You got this cubic sense here. Then you got the wall itself. It’s 144 cubits thick, what is that, but 12 squared? So, it’s just begging for a symbolic interpretation. I’m like, fine. I don’t think it’s either or. I think it can be both physical and symbolic.
By the way, a wall being 144 cubits thick, what is that, that’s 200 feet thick. So, think about a football field, that’s two thirds of a football field thick, that’s quite thick, so quite secure. And it says he measured the wall by man’s measurement, which the angel is using. Why is he doing that? It’s because we’re humans, and we need to understand limitations in space. By the way, this is almost exactly like the detailed measurements done in Ezekiel 41 and 42, and in that whole section. In Ezekiel, about the symbolic spiritual temple that is measured out, you’ve got a lot of cubits, lots of cubit measurements, and so there’s a sense of physicality, a sense of reality, and a sense of trying to communicate to us, by using measurements we can understand. And so, it lays all of that out.
Wes
Now on that point, it is similar to Ezekiel, but there are some differences. What might we note by way of difference, if we were to go read those Ezekiel passages, and then come back here to Revelation 21?
Andy
Absolutely no animal sacrifice. There’s no animal sacrifice. The Ezekiel temple is all set up for animal sacrifice, set up for the Levites to do their work, which is why it’s such a head scratcher, because all of that’s been fulfilled, and it’s called in Hebrews 8, obsolete. So obsolete stands over any animal sacrifice that you’re going to see there, certainly any done with the pleasure of God, and by the will of God. I do believe that the Jews, in their unbelief, at the end of the world, will offer animal sacrifice, but that’s again, nothing God desires. And so fundamentally I think that’s a significant difference. And beyond that, we’re talking about, if you look at Ezekiel, it also allots the land, the promised land. And it talks about going from the river to the great sea, and all, that’s very much tied to the Jewish conception of the allotted promised land. This doesn’t mention the promised land, it just goes out. And so, I really believe the meek are going to inherit the earth, not just that little part.
And so, God promises the promised land to Abraham, and to his descendants. If he gives him that land, he will fulfill his promise. If he doesn’t give him that land, but some new planet, he will not. And so, it will be this planet redeemed, or resurrected, but God can give him that land, and the whole world too, and still have kept his promise. And so, I believe we’re going to get all of the new earth. And so that’s another difference. If you look at Ezekiel, he’s allotting out actual land in horizontal bands, across the promised land. You don’t see that here.
Wes
Now in verse 18, we get this language of purity and clarity, that you mentioned earlier. It says the wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass. What do we glean from verse 18?
Andy
Well, the concept of purity is just anything that would defile, anything that is filthy or dirty, is out. So, you think about a really excellent water purification system, like for a pharmaceutical company, or for a manufacturer of things to eat, they want really clean water to do that. And so, a drink company, something like that. And so, they’re going to want a very excellent water purification system, especially hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, they need pure water. And so, the idea of purity is, nothing is there that shouldn’t be there. And so, the idea of purity is, everything has been removed, everything impure is gone. And so, we have this idea of pure as glass. Now again, I said earlier that the different colored stones, and they’re listed here, and you read them, I won’t make you read them again, the stone names, but all of them, what’s quite remarkable are the colors.
And I figured out the colors, and you have pretty much the spectrum here. You have all of the colors. And so, what I get out of that is, with jasper, it’s like white, it’s like a diamond. But then when you have a prism, and like a wedge, a triangular wedge of crystal, then Isaac Newton studied these prisms, and it breaks out into the spectrum, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. That’s the beautiful spectrum. And these different colors, to me, represent different aspects of the glory of God, and different aspects of the human race. And so, we are diverse, we’re different from each other. And we bring different things to the table. And there are different eras in church history. There were eras of peace and prosperity, in which scholars flourished, and wrote great books that people studied for hundreds of years. Then there’s a wartime thing, where the church was doing everything it could to survive, like during the Roman Empire, and Muslim nations. Or behind the Iron Curtain, just to survive and to keep being Christians was amazing. That different eras gave a different light, a different hue. And so again, I’m not saying that’s not literal stones, but I’m just saying that different colors shed a different light of God’s glory, working through different people in different eras.
Wes
So verses 19-20 really give just an extrapolation of what’s happening in verse 18, with this incredible light, amazing clarity, and the purity of what God has done in building this city.
Andy
Right, each true Christian who is fruitful for God, shows a different aspect of God. And so, this is where we get this beautiful language in John 3:20-21, “Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light, for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But everyone who lives by the truth, comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” Do you see the significance of those words?
Our good works were worked in us by God, to God be the glory for all of us. This is why they cast their crowns before the throne. These aspects of our contributions to the beauty of new Jerusalem, God worked them in us. So ultimately, to God be the glory means look what God did in me. Look how he worked these things in me. So, take, for example, Peter’s great courage in proclaiming the gospel, in the Book of Acts after so cravenly and with great cowardice denying even knowing Jesus. All right, so let’s look then at Peter at his best, boldly proclaiming the gospel to the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Where did that boldness come from? We know where it came from.
To God be the glory. And so, we’ll go back over that moment in history. And then see Peter and his courage and honor him for it and reward him for it with honor. But to God goes the glory for that. He got his boldness from God, and he gets credit for everything.
Wes
Now next comes the famous pearly gates. We’ve heard that language, maybe even beyond our Christian, or Bible studying circles. What does this detail in verse 21 contribute to our understanding, as we seek to understand this passage?
Andy
Right? There’s a lot to say about the pearly gates. First of all, in the Bible, pearls are like the height of luxury. So, it’s like Jesus told a parable about a merchant looking for pearls. That’s all he did. Pearls was everything for him, because they are, I think, by weight the most valuable thing that there was in the biblical world. And so how are they formed? They’re formed with a grain of sand, let’s say an irritant, that gets inside a certain species of oyster, and then the oyster starts to coat it for its own protection, to protect itself from the pain. And then it just gets bigger and bigger, layer upon layer. And that’s how pearls are formed. And the chemistry behind it is fascinating. But what it really does, is it catches the light and causes a shimmer, a glow, a kind of a bluish-white glow, which is beautiful. And people have loved it. And so, women have used it for jewelry, and kings have used it to put in their crowns and things like that.
behind the radiant glory of the new Jerusalem there is human suffering. There is a cost, being willing, that we are willing to pay.
And so, they’re also very difficult to come by. They’re very rare. Not every oyster has a pearl in it, and only certain species of oyster. And to get them, you have to dive down to the bottom of the Mediterranean. This is before there was scuba, or anything like that. So, it was very dangerous to go down and get them. They’re very hard to cultivate. I think humans learned how to stimulate them if they could, but that became more of a 20th, 21st century thing. But back then they probably had certain farms where they could get them, but they’re still incredibly valuable. And these are huge, absolutely huge. And so, the idea would be beauty, and luxury, and cost, and also possibly a backdrop of suffering, because the oyster suffers to produce the beauty. And so, behind the radiant glory of the new Jerusalem there is human suffering. There is a cost, being willing, that we are willing to pay. And Jesus talked about that, when he talked about sitting at his right hand and his left in the kingdom, and James and John wanted those honors. And he said, “Are you able to drink the cup that I’m going to drink and be baptized with the baptism I’m baptized with?” (Mark 10:38), that is suffering. And so, the price of heavenly glory is earthly suffering.
Wes
As we move into the final section of this chapter, there’s some amazing detail here, that really gives us just a sense of the amazing nature of this new Jerusalem. What’s the significance of the fact that John did not see a temple in the city?
Andy
Because the Lord God and the Lamb are its temple. I think what it means is, the idea was locality, back then. Jonathan Edwards did a great step-by-step statement on this, where he said that of all the nations on earth, Israel was the most holy, and of all of the tribes in Israel, Judah was the most set apart. And of all the cities in Judah, Jerusalem was set apart. And of all the buildings within Jerusalem, the temple was set apart. And of all the parts of the temple, the Holy of Holies who was set apart, and of all within the Holy of Holies, the mercy seat above the Ark of the Covenant was the most holy place on earth. So what is all that? It’s like God chose out a locality, almost laser precise, of where he would meet with his people. That’s where he would speak to them, from above the Ark of the Covenant, that’s where the blood of the sacrifice was put.
That was the Holy of Holy of Holies, the place. Well, in the new heaven, new earth, there’s no one locality. God is everywhere, as it’s the consummation. What Jesus said amazingly to the Samaritan woman at the well, “Neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. God is Spirit, and those who worship him, will worship in spirit and truth.” So, it won’t be a locality thing anymore.
God will be everywhere, and you don’t need a special place to worship God. So what that means Wes, is when you and I go for a nature walk in the new earth, and we’re considering the lilies of the field, if there are lilies, and I think there will be some kind of beautiful flora in that new world, and we look at it, and we see the glory of God in it, we will worship God right there and then. We don’t have to go to some location to worship him. Everywhere, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. Think about those words. What it means is, the earth will be the temple. The entire thing will be the temple. Everywhere will be the temple. So, you don’t need a specific location; God and the Lamb are the temple.
Wes
Now, not only is there no temple, but it also says the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. What does this verse teach us about the future light of the new Jerusalem, and what do the following verses in 24-26, teach us about life in the new heavens and new earth?
Andy
Yeah, so this is really remarkable. There are certain features that people struggle with, because they like the sun, the moon, and the stars, and they’re beautiful. But we’re told in Genesis 1 that God caused those great lights in the sky to give light to the earth. They had a servant role. They were serving people, although they ruled, it says they ruled over the day. The sun ruled over the day, the moon ruled over the night. He also made the stars, et cetera. There’s no need for that, it says, it doesn’t mean that there won’t be any there, but I think it does in fact mean that there will not be a sun, moon or stars. And I think what it is, God doesn’t want to delegate it, at this point, to a creative being. He’s like, I’ll take it, I’ll take it.
And so, when you look at light, you won’t be saying, “Oh, the sun is bright today,” or whatever, you’ll see God directly. And so, I think that’s what it means, that the glory of God, and we already saw this idea back in verse 11. So, verse 11 and verse 23, both say, the glory of God is what this whole thing is all about. That’s why I wrote my book the way I did. You want to know what heaven is about? It’s an eternal education in the glory of God. Why do I say eternal education? Because we’ll never be omniscient. And because God’s glory is infinite in its dimensions and colors and hues, we have forever to learn how glorious God is. That’s what I look on. So, God is going to be shining constantly, and he’s going to be shining in us. Jesus will say in our resurrection bodies, the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of our fathers.
And so, we’re going to shine with the glory of God. Now you asked, what do the rest of the verses talk about what life will be like? Well, it’s a fascinating question. It says the nations will walk by its light, namely the light of the glory of God. And by the way, I love how it says, the Lamb is its lamp. So that reminds me of Hebrews 1:3, which says, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory.” All right? So, Jesus shines with the glory of God. When it was said, when they said, the apostle said, “Show us the Father, and it will be enough for us.” And Jesus said, “Don’t you know me, Philip, after I’ve been with you all this time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, show us the Father?” (John 14:9). So to look at Jesus is to look at the glory of God. And so, Jesus the Lamb is its lamp. I also like the way it says, the Lamb is its lamp. What that means is that we’ll forever be celebrating the death of Jesus. He died once, for all, but we’re going to be celebrating it forever. And so, we’ll always remember, it was by the blood of Jesus, that we are even there, Wes, that we are there. The new Jerusalem is blood bought. The whole thing is blood bought. It was very costly.
All right, now what will life be like? The nations will walk by the light of the glory of God through Jesus, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor to it. What does that tell me? It tells me that there’s a hierarchy of authority, that created beings will rule, and others will submit to their authority. So, it’s not all egalitarian, it’s not all equal. And so those with rulership, like the parable of the minas, the one who had taken the one mina, and turned it into 10 minas got 10 cities. He was in charge of 10 cities. You’re like, wait a minute, cities? There’s the new Jerusalem. Isn’t that city enough? Oh, it’s city enough. But it doesn’t mean there won’t be other cities. It could be there’s this capital city, and then there are lesser cities, and we all kind of gather together time to time, or regularly, et cetera.
I don’t know. When I don’t know, I say I don’t know. But the kings of the nations will walk by the light of the glory of God, and they will bring their glory into it, meaning the kings will have their own glory, but it’s not separate from the glory of God. And I think what that means is, we’re going to be creative and in our resurrection bodies, in that resurrected world, we’re going to do things, and we’re going to bring those things in, that we will do. We make luxuries skillfully, for the glory of God, and we will lay them before the throne. And so, the things we will do in our resurrection bodies, we will bring before the throne of God. Also, to some degree, we will be continually offering what we did while we lived in this world. So, our rewards will be reminders of the things we did for God. And God will still live in that moment. God loves living in the past and will get to live in the past, but we won’t only live in the past. We’ll live in the present, and we’ll be moving toward the future.
And so, we will do creative, energetic things, and bring those into the city, and give glory to it. So, this idea of a stream of nations bringing riches into Zion is in Isaiah 60. It’s a very rich image there in Isaiah 60, caravans coming and bringing good stuff. So that’s very much in that Old Testament language. But the idea here in the new Jerusalem is, commerce, busyness, energy, structure, society, authority, submission to authority, order, all of it by the glory of God, and for the glory of God. And then it says, On no day will its gates ever be shut for there’ll be no night there.
So, people are kind of bummed about that. They’re bummed about there not being sun, moon, or stars, or the sea. All I’m saying is, you’re going to be happy, you’ll be fine. You’ll be fine with it. No night there. So, there’s no darkness, because it says, God created light, and he called the light good. He even called the darkness good. And generally in the Bible, darkness is evil. It’s bad. So, there’s not going to be any evil. And the gates will always be open, because there’s no threats, there’s no evil. There’s no threats, there’s no danger. It’s all done, will stream in there. And nothing impure will enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those names who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. We already covered that on Judgment Day. They’re already cleared, once for all. But John is circling back on that, this is not universalism. I think again, as you read this, we’re still in the present age of the gospel.
And the idea is a warning to repent of our sins, and trust in Christ while we can. So, if we’re on the outside, we’ll be in hell. If you’re not allowed to enter the new Jerusalem, you’re not in some lesser society, you’d be in hell. And so, the idea is, make certain that your name is written in the Lamb’s book of life, by repenting and believing in Jesus, because nothing impure will enter that holy city, but only those whose names are written in that Lamb’s book of life.
Wes
Andy, this is just an amazing description of that future toward which we’re bound. What final thoughts do you have for us, as we just reflect on the glory, really the glory of God, but on display in the new Jerusalem, as we wrap up our time today?
Andy
Wes. Final thoughts? I don’t think there are any final thoughts. I’m going to keep … I know you mean for the podcast, but I mean, I have been thinking and thinking and thinking about these things for years. And I remember, when I hadn’t finished writing the book, or I was still working on it, I would have new heaven ideas, and my daughter, Carolyn would send me, “Hey Dad, I was thinking about this for your book,” and I have all of these iPad notes on heaven stuff. I have like 20 of them, with little ideas and insights, and all that. It just kept going and going. And so, to me, I guess my final idea here is, dear friend, meditate on heaven. Think about it a lot. Think about these things. This is not some kind of guilty pleasure. We should think about this constantly, and be filled with hope, and joy in our future heavenly glory.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 30 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time, for Episode 31 entitled, The River of Life, where we’ll discuss Revelation 22:1-6. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Wes
Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study podcast. This is Episode 30 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast, entitled The New Jerusalem, where we’ll discuss Revelation 21:9-27. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Wes, what could be more exciting than studying heaven? Studying the New Jerusalem, studying the infinite complexity and beauty and imagery and the symbolism of Revelation 21. I’m thrilled to walk through it. These themes have captivated me for years, and I hope you and I can get a little bit of it in this podcast as we study the New Jerusalem. And talk about really the heavenly architecture of it, the city and its rules and its openness and its worship, and all of those things. Should be an awesome time.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read verses 9-27, in Revelation 21.
Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit, to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates, twelve angels, and on the gates, the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed- on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
And the one who spoke with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal. He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement. The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, and its gates will never be shut by day- and there will be no night there. They will bring into it the glory and the honor of the nations. But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Andy, what’s the significance of the angel’s statement, the Bride, the wife of the Lamb, and in what sense is a city also a bride?
Andy
Well, Wes, those are great questions, and they fulfill a lot of deep and rich biblical themes. So, let’s start simply with the fact that in the Old Testament, Israel, the nation of Israel, is sometimes depicted as the bride of God. And we have the great disappointment, the tragedy of the unfaithfulness of the bride, of the wife of God, Israel, in Ezekiel 16, especially, the wayward ways of the city of Jerusalem. And it’s heartbreaking when you read Ezekiel 16 and how God’s heart is broken.
But we have a contrast with that now with the new Jerusalem, a pure and beautiful bride, made ready for the wedding, with the bridegroom who is Jesus. And so that image is consummated and perfected. We also have a contrast, as we saw earlier, with the whore of Babylon, and the same kind of language. Then the angel said, “Come I will show you, ….” So, I’ll show you the great whore of Babylon, and then come, I’ll show you the bride of the Lamb. So, there’s a contrast between the wicked, immoral and impure people of the world, kind of organized together into the whore of Babylon. And then you’ve got the bride of Christ, which are the redeemed. And also we have that beautiful language concerning marriage, in Ephesians 5:25-27, where it says, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her, to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water, through the word, to present her to himself, as a radiant church without stain, a wrinkle, or any other blemish but holy and blameless.”
That’s perfected here in Revelation 21. She is done. She has been made beautiful, she has been completely washed and cleansed and purified and made ready for this great wedding. And so, she descends from heaven, adorned. And so, the work done on her, has been done in heaven, ultimately by God, through Christ. And so, Christ got her ready. He got her dress, which is very different than most weddings, as I’ve noted before. Bridegrooms don’t know much about cosmetics and hair and the attire, she’s on that, and her mother; the bridegroom is not qualified. But this bridegroom is eminently qualified. He is the one who speaks the word beautifully, as it says in Isaiah 62, “For Zion’s sake, I will not keep silent until her radiance shines forth like the dawn.” We get that same image. Wes, there are a lot of images completed here in Revelation 21.
Wes
And that language even of Zion, thinking of maybe a mountain, there’s a connection here, a bride, a mountain, a city. So, there’s a number of images here being used of the people of God.
Andy
Sure. I want to double-click on that again. You asked how could a city be a bride? And so first of all, in simple conception, a city is a lot of people together in a common society. And so, we are a mass of human beings redeemed from every tribe, language, people, and nation, brought together. But we maintain our individuality just as the persons of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit, maintain their individuality, and yet are perfectly one. In the same way, the church, we all maintain our individuality, but we are perfectly one. And so, the image of a city makes sense, a teeming city, with millions and millions of people there. And so, it’s a lot of people, but it’s one. And so, we all have one heart, and one mind, and that focus is love for Jesus. We have a bride’s love for Jesus. And that bride is a submissive, yielding, he’s the initiator, we the responder. It’s a feminine role that’s given, and we all can understand that and accept it.
And so, we have a city that is a bride. We also have a similar image in Galatians where Paul talks about the Jerusalem that is above, as our mother. And so, there’s a mother image. There’s lots of complex images here. And why is that? It’s because not just one image is sufficient to capture what the church is. She’s a city, she’s a bride, she’s a population, she’s a kingdom of priests. All of these things are images for the church.
Wes
And then “above and below,” that locational language, if you will, is not insignificant here in verse 10. We want to try and understand what John means when, he says he’s brought in the Spirit, and the significance of the fact that the new Jerusalem was descending out of heaven from God.
Andy
Yeah, it’s a beautiful thing. Also, I want to say, and we’re going to get into it in this chapter, there’s a physicality to all this. It’s easy to see the symbolic language, but let’s not forget that Jesus was raised in a body you could touch. A spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have, do you have anything here to eat? Yes, we have some broiled fish. He took it, chewed it, and swallowed it. All right, so we’re going to have resurrection bodies like that. We got to go somewhere. And so yeah, there’s symbolic imagery here for the new Jerusalem, but there’s these cubits, and this measurement, we’ll talk about all that. But there’s got to be a place for it. And so, all of that, for all the symbolism, we can’t deny there is a physicality here. Now in terms of the image, the vision. First of all, it’s just so beautiful. The Holy Spirit gives us all a vision of something that hasn’t happened yet. And we can see this visionary language, “Come, I will show you.” And he takes John to a mountain great and high. And so, there’s that visionary language.
Also, this was huge for me in my writing of my book, The Glory Now Revealed, is I believe in a backward vision. This is a forward-looking vision, which we’re seeing by vision, what is yet to come. But I believe, in heaven, there’ll be a backward vision of seeing how she was built, over 6,000 years of redemptive history, everything God did to put that city together. And so, you asked about it descending from heaven. And I already said that Jesus has been working on her from heaven. We know this from John 14 where he says, “In my father’s house are many rooms. If were not, so I would’ve told you, for I am going to prepare a place for you. If I prepare a place for you, I’ll come and take you to be with me, so you also may be where I am.” And so, here’s how I see it.
The place is the new Jerusalem. We are the spiritual temple, Ephesians 2, in which God dwells by the Spirit. He’s been preparing her for 2000 years, or actually longer, because Old Testament saints, he’s been getting her ready by the work of the gospel, by the proclamation of the gospel. He’s getting her ready by justification, sanctification, and glorification of each of the elect. And little by little by little, she’s getting bigger and more glorious and more detailed and more perfected. And then when this moment comes, and she descends, she’s done. All the elect have been glorified. And so, she’s finished, and ready now for dwelling between God and his people. So that’s that descending image. The work was done in heaven by God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit.
Wes
Now John also calls the city holy. What does that mean, and why is it important, in light of all that we’ve just been discussing?
Andy
All right, so Jerusalem was called the holy city in the Old Testament. And the word holy means set apart unto God. I think you get all the vessels that are used in the animal sacrifice, and they’re titled holy to the Lord. And also the anointing oil, and the incense was holy to the Lord, meaning it could only be used for the religion, for the worship. And so, it couldn’t be used for private use. A woman couldn’t say, “Hey, that smells good. I’d like some for Christmas.” Well, they didn’t do Christmas in the Old Testament, but anyway, I would like some of that. No, no, no, you couldn’t do that. It was holy to the Lord. It was for him; it was set apart under God. So, there’s that sense of holiness. And there’s also the complete freedom from evil. There’s literally no darkness in her at all. Just like God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all, so Jerusalem will be light. And in Jerusalem, the new Jerusalem, there’ll be no darkness at all. She is holy, completely free from evil.
Wes
And that’s really picked up in verse 11 where we get this description of the new Jerusalem. How does verse 11 describe the new Jerusalem, and what is the ultimate source of the city’s brilliance?
Andy
heaven will be an eternal education in the glory of God.
Okay, so this is key to everything here. The new Jerusalem is shining, is glowing with the glory of God. This is a very, very important statement. She’s radiant with the glory of God. And so, the things that follow, all of the precious stones of various colors, the street of gold, which is transparent gold, which is, we’ll talk about that I’m sure in a moment. But the idea is, everything glows with the same light, and the light is the glory of God. Now the different colors are refracted and show different aspects of the glory of God. But what is the glory of God? And this was key again in my book on heaven, The Glory Now Revealed, that heaven will be an eternal education in the glory of God. But I had to define glory of God. What is it? It is a radiant display of the perfections of God. What are the perfections of God? The attributes of God. For example, God’s omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, his aseity, his self-existence. That’s an attribute of God, his wisdom, his love, his patience, his wrath, his justice.
These are attributes of God. So, the city will exist to put God fully on display. And so that’s why we have to have a backward look into history, because some of those attributes will never be needed again. God will never need patience again with the redeemed, in the new heaven, new earth, because we’re not going to tax his patience.
We will do everything right all the time, like Jesus. We won’t need mercy from God, we won’t need compassion from God, because we won’t suffer. We won’t need grace from God, new effusions of grace, because we won’t sin. And so therefore, if we’re going to celebrate these attributes, we have to look back at how God’s grace, and mercy, and patience, and power were on display in the past. And so, the city is there for that. But it goes back to the original intention of God. We believe in creation at the start, God created all things, for the display of his glory, and then he redeemed us for the display and for the praise of his glorious grace. And so, all of this is there to put God on display. So, everything’s shining, it’s radiant, it’s brilliant, with the glory of God.
Wes
Let’s talk through verses 12-14, in the sense that they give us of the city. How do the names on the gates, the names on the 12 foundations relate? What’s symbolized by what’s described in verses 12-14 here?
Andy
All right, so it says, it had a great high wall with 12 gates and with 12 angels at the gates. All right, so first the concept of a great high wall is absolute security and safety. All right, so if you are in a citadel, such as we’re told by Herodotus, ancient Babylon, it had unbelievably high walls, and they were so thick at the base that at the top you could drive a chariot of four horses at the top of the wall. That’s how wide it was. So, it’s unbelievable walls around Babylon. These we would imagine are greater, and the idea is absolute security. And yet we’re going to be told, the gates always stand open, because there are no external threats. Why? Because all of the external threats, the devil, and his angels, and all the unredeemed, the reprobate are in hell, they’re in the lake of fire, they’re never getting out.
There’s a great chasm, separating hell from everything else, and nothing can cross. And so, there is no need to shut the gate. So then why the great wall? I think it’s just a sense of the security of the new Jerusalem, like the hymn, “Glorious things of thee are spoken, on the rock of ages founded, what can shake thy sure repose, with salvation’s wall surrounded, thou mayest smile at all thy foes.” Sense of absolute security in that hymn. Well, this is the consummation of that security. So, a great wall, high, but the gates are always standing open, so there’s no threats. Then we’ve got 12 gates and 12 angels at the gates. There’s a watchfulness there, but then again, no need, because there’s no enemies on the outside, and yet there they are. On the gates are written the names of the 12 tribes of Israel.
And on the foundation, there are 12 foundations, and the names of those are the 12 apostles of the Lamb. So, what I get out of that is the significance of history. The Bible is rich with history. The Old Testament is rich with history. And so, the idea is, the human beings who did this and that and the other and played different roles will be remembered and celebrated in the new Jerusalem. I’m not saying that these names won’t be literally inscribed. I think wherever we can, if it’s possible to think anything being done literally it’s beneficial. Because once you sever the tie of literalism, and then you’re into pure symbolism, it’s hard to even keep your footing in this chapter. So, I believe that we could see actual literalness, but the significance is human beings, their lives, their works, contributed to the building of this city. Our works went into building it. And so, we are used and remembered, and again in my book on heaven, I think the backward look is also to celebrate the good works of men and women who served God. Now we know that the 12 tribes, those were no great people, these were the ones that were jealous of Joseph and sold him into slavery. So again, there’s a sense of the corruption of human beings, and yet God’s grace overcoming their corruption and still using them.
Same thing with the apostles. Now of course you’re going to say, now which 12? Is it Matthias, or is it Paul? Does he have his own little special corner, or what? I don’t know and I don’t know. And then I don’t know. But at any rate, I think what I get out of this, is the significance of human history, and human works in building the new Jerusalem.
Wes
It reminds me of 1 Peter 2, that talks about living stones being built into the walls of this spiritual house. So, you get a sense of that with these names, written to record the acts of real people, who are put into this building, the work that God is doing.
Andy
Also, I want to share a personal anecdote. When I was a student at MIT, in Cambridge, there’s a place called Killian Court. And there inscribed up high on the fourth story in granite (the building was made in the early part of the 20th century, I think before World War I), were inscribed names of the great heroes of science, up to that point. Now of course there’ve been many heroes of science since then, but it was made at a certain time.
Wes
They were too late.
Andy
Too late, they lived too late to be inscribed in Killian court. And so, then you had the big names and then smaller names. So, the size of the font corresponded to the committee that was making these decisions and their estimation of the significance of this or that or the other. So, Newton, for example, one of the great names in the history of science, and Ben Franklin, Archimedes, some of these others, that made great contributions to science, and all of them are listed. So, I think the inscribing of these names is the fact that there will be honors given in heaven for the great ones, great men and women, who suffered greatly, served greatly, contributed greatly, by their loyalty to Christ. So that’s an incentive to great works, while we live.
Wes
Now verses 15-21, give us a more detailed description of the city. What sense does this section give us about the new Jerusalem?
Andy
All right, so going back to the fact, the physicality of it, we have to be somewhere, we will take up space. It is mysterious, because the resurrection body, Jesus’ resurrection body, seems to defy physics, at some points. In other cases, it absolutely fits physics. It’s like touch me and see, a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see I have. I would say, yes Lord, amen, Lord. But flesh and bone doesn’t pass through walls or disappear.
Wes
Or just appear.
Andy
So, it’s both/and, not either/or. So, it’s both physical, and then it’s a spiritual body. So, what I get out of the measurements, is how physical this whole thing is. I also get boundaries. We will still be limited. God is limitless, we will be limited. And so, I think about boundary lines as it says in Psalm 16, the boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places, surely have a delightful inheritance from the Lord. And so, the measurement gives a sense of an allotted space for the city. It’s got a certain space, but it’s massively huge. So, it’s measured out. It’s limited, but big, really big. And how big? Well, it says 12,000 stadia. So that translates to about 1,450 miles, something like that. It’s almost half continental US. So, I remember kind of laying out a footprint on the continental US. It went from Orlando, Florida to Abilene, Texas, and then up to the Canadian, beyond the Canadian border. I mean that’s the base footprint of the city.
Wes
That’s a big city.
Andy
It is big, and then stranger than all, it’s as high as it is wide and long. So, it’s a perfect cube, that just doesn’t … I don’t know, it boggles the imagination. It goes out into beyond where satellites orbit, way, way beyond. They’re much lower than 1500 miles in orbit. So, it’s just way out there, way up there.
Wes
Wow.
Andy
And so, I don’t know how long an elevator takes to get from the ground floor to one of the skyscrapers, or if that’s even ridiculous to talk about. I’m sure it is. But it’s just a huge, huge city. And so, each of us has some inheritance within that city. Obviously, the language seems to beg symbolism, because 12,000, the number 12 is just that number, 12. And then you got thousand, which is 10 times 10 times 10, 10 cubed. You got this cubic sense here. Then you got the wall itself. It’s 144 cubits thick, what is that, but 12 squared? So, it’s just begging for a symbolic interpretation. I’m like, fine. I don’t think it’s either or. I think it can be both physical and symbolic.
By the way, a wall being 144 cubits thick, what is that, that’s 200 feet thick. So, think about a football field, that’s two thirds of a football field thick, that’s quite thick, so quite secure. And it says he measured the wall by man’s measurement, which the angel is using. Why is he doing that? It’s because we’re humans, and we need to understand limitations in space. By the way, this is almost exactly like the detailed measurements done in Ezekiel 41 and 42, and in that whole section. In Ezekiel, about the symbolic spiritual temple that is measured out, you’ve got a lot of cubits, lots of cubit measurements, and so there’s a sense of physicality, a sense of reality, and a sense of trying to communicate to us, by using measurements we can understand. And so, it lays all of that out.
Wes
Now on that point, it is similar to Ezekiel, but there are some differences. What might we note by way of difference, if we were to go read those Ezekiel passages, and then come back here to Revelation 21?
Andy
Absolutely no animal sacrifice. There’s no animal sacrifice. The Ezekiel temple is all set up for animal sacrifice, set up for the Levites to do their work, which is why it’s such a head scratcher, because all of that’s been fulfilled, and it’s called in Hebrews 8, obsolete. So obsolete stands over any animal sacrifice that you’re going to see there, certainly any done with the pleasure of God, and by the will of God. I do believe that the Jews, in their unbelief, at the end of the world, will offer animal sacrifice, but that’s again, nothing God desires. And so fundamentally I think that’s a significant difference. And beyond that, we’re talking about, if you look at Ezekiel, it also allots the land, the promised land. And it talks about going from the river to the great sea, and all, that’s very much tied to the Jewish conception of the allotted promised land. This doesn’t mention the promised land, it just goes out. And so, I really believe the meek are going to inherit the earth, not just that little part.
And so, God promises the promised land to Abraham, and to his descendants. If he gives him that land, he will fulfill his promise. If he doesn’t give him that land, but some new planet, he will not. And so, it will be this planet redeemed, or resurrected, but God can give him that land, and the whole world too, and still have kept his promise. And so, I believe we’re going to get all of the new earth. And so that’s another difference. If you look at Ezekiel, he’s allotting out actual land in horizontal bands, across the promised land. You don’t see that here.
Wes
Now in verse 18, we get this language of purity and clarity, that you mentioned earlier. It says the wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass. What do we glean from verse 18?
Andy
Well, the concept of purity is just anything that would defile, anything that is filthy or dirty, is out. So, you think about a really excellent water purification system, like for a pharmaceutical company, or for a manufacturer of things to eat, they want really clean water to do that. And so, a drink company, something like that. And so, they’re going to want a very excellent water purification system, especially hospitals and pharmaceutical companies, they need pure water. And so, the idea of purity is, nothing is there that shouldn’t be there. And so, the idea of purity is, everything has been removed, everything impure is gone. And so, we have this idea of pure as glass. Now again, I said earlier that the different colored stones, and they’re listed here, and you read them, I won’t make you read them again, the stone names, but all of them, what’s quite remarkable are the colors.
And I figured out the colors, and you have pretty much the spectrum here. You have all of the colors. And so, what I get out of that is, with jasper, it’s like white, it’s like a diamond. But then when you have a prism, and like a wedge, a triangular wedge of crystal, then Isaac Newton studied these prisms, and it breaks out into the spectrum, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. That’s the beautiful spectrum. And these different colors, to me, represent different aspects of the glory of God, and different aspects of the human race. And so, we are diverse, we’re different from each other. And we bring different things to the table. And there are different eras in church history. There were eras of peace and prosperity, in which scholars flourished, and wrote great books that people studied for hundreds of years. Then there’s a wartime thing, where the church was doing everything it could to survive, like during the Roman Empire, and Muslim nations. Or behind the Iron Curtain, just to survive and to keep being Christians was amazing. That different eras gave a different light, a different hue. And so again, I’m not saying that’s not literal stones, but I’m just saying that different colors shed a different light of God’s glory, working through different people in different eras.
Wes
So verses 19-20 really give just an extrapolation of what’s happening in verse 18, with this incredible light, amazing clarity, and the purity of what God has done in building this city.
Andy
Right, each true Christian who is fruitful for God, shows a different aspect of God. And so, this is where we get this beautiful language in John 3:20-21, “Everyone who does evil hates the light and will not come into the light, for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But everyone who lives by the truth, comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” Do you see the significance of those words?
Our good works were worked in us by God, to God be the glory for all of us. This is why they cast their crowns before the throne. These aspects of our contributions to the beauty of new Jerusalem, God worked them in us. So ultimately, to God be the glory means look what God did in me. Look how he worked these things in me. So, take, for example, Peter’s great courage in proclaiming the gospel, in the Book of Acts after so cravenly and with great cowardice denying even knowing Jesus. All right, so let’s look then at Peter at his best, boldly proclaiming the gospel to the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Where did that boldness come from? We know where it came from.
To God be the glory. And so, we’ll go back over that moment in history. And then see Peter and his courage and honor him for it and reward him for it with honor. But to God goes the glory for that. He got his boldness from God, and he gets credit for everything.
Wes
Now next comes the famous pearly gates. We’ve heard that language, maybe even beyond our Christian, or Bible studying circles. What does this detail in verse 21 contribute to our understanding, as we seek to understand this passage?
Andy
Right? There’s a lot to say about the pearly gates. First of all, in the Bible, pearls are like the height of luxury. So, it’s like Jesus told a parable about a merchant looking for pearls. That’s all he did. Pearls was everything for him, because they are, I think, by weight the most valuable thing that there was in the biblical world. And so how are they formed? They’re formed with a grain of sand, let’s say an irritant, that gets inside a certain species of oyster, and then the oyster starts to coat it for its own protection, to protect itself from the pain. And then it just gets bigger and bigger, layer upon layer. And that’s how pearls are formed. And the chemistry behind it is fascinating. But what it really does, is it catches the light and causes a shimmer, a glow, a kind of a bluish-white glow, which is beautiful. And people have loved it. And so, women have used it for jewelry, and kings have used it to put in their crowns and things like that.
behind the radiant glory of the new Jerusalem there is human suffering. There is a cost, being willing, that we are willing to pay.
And so, they’re also very difficult to come by. They’re very rare. Not every oyster has a pearl in it, and only certain species of oyster. And to get them, you have to dive down to the bottom of the Mediterranean. This is before there was scuba, or anything like that. So, it was very dangerous to go down and get them. They’re very hard to cultivate. I think humans learned how to stimulate them if they could, but that became more of a 20th, 21st century thing. But back then they probably had certain farms where they could get them, but they’re still incredibly valuable. And these are huge, absolutely huge. And so, the idea would be beauty, and luxury, and cost, and also possibly a backdrop of suffering, because the oyster suffers to produce the beauty. And so, behind the radiant glory of the new Jerusalem there is human suffering. There is a cost, being willing, that we are willing to pay. And Jesus talked about that, when he talked about sitting at his right hand and his left in the kingdom, and James and John wanted those honors. And he said, “Are you able to drink the cup that I’m going to drink and be baptized with the baptism I’m baptized with?” (Mark 10:38), that is suffering. And so, the price of heavenly glory is earthly suffering.
Wes
As we move into the final section of this chapter, there’s some amazing detail here, that really gives us just a sense of the amazing nature of this new Jerusalem. What’s the significance of the fact that John did not see a temple in the city?
Andy
Because the Lord God and the Lamb are its temple. I think what it means is, the idea was locality, back then. Jonathan Edwards did a great step-by-step statement on this, where he said that of all the nations on earth, Israel was the most holy, and of all of the tribes in Israel, Judah was the most set apart. And of all the cities in Judah, Jerusalem was set apart. And of all the buildings within Jerusalem, the temple was set apart. And of all the parts of the temple, the Holy of Holies who was set apart, and of all within the Holy of Holies, the mercy seat above the Ark of the Covenant was the most holy place on earth. So what is all that? It’s like God chose out a locality, almost laser precise, of where he would meet with his people. That’s where he would speak to them, from above the Ark of the Covenant, that’s where the blood of the sacrifice was put.
That was the Holy of Holy of Holies, the place. Well, in the new heaven, new earth, there’s no one locality. God is everywhere, as it’s the consummation. What Jesus said amazingly to the Samaritan woman at the well, “Neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. God is Spirit, and those who worship him, will worship in spirit and truth.” So, it won’t be a locality thing anymore.
God will be everywhere, and you don’t need a special place to worship God. So what that means Wes, is when you and I go for a nature walk in the new earth, and we’re considering the lilies of the field, if there are lilies, and I think there will be some kind of beautiful flora in that new world, and we look at it, and we see the glory of God in it, we will worship God right there and then. We don’t have to go to some location to worship him. Everywhere, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. Think about those words. What it means is, the earth will be the temple. The entire thing will be the temple. Everywhere will be the temple. So, you don’t need a specific location; God and the Lamb are the temple.
Wes
Now, not only is there no temple, but it also says the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. What does this verse teach us about the future light of the new Jerusalem, and what do the following verses in 24-26, teach us about life in the new heavens and new earth?
Andy
Yeah, so this is really remarkable. There are certain features that people struggle with, because they like the sun, the moon, and the stars, and they’re beautiful. But we’re told in Genesis 1 that God caused those great lights in the sky to give light to the earth. They had a servant role. They were serving people, although they ruled, it says they ruled over the day. The sun ruled over the day, the moon ruled over the night. He also made the stars, et cetera. There’s no need for that, it says, it doesn’t mean that there won’t be any there, but I think it does in fact mean that there will not be a sun, moon or stars. And I think what it is, God doesn’t want to delegate it, at this point, to a creative being. He’s like, I’ll take it, I’ll take it.
And so, when you look at light, you won’t be saying, “Oh, the sun is bright today,” or whatever, you’ll see God directly. And so, I think that’s what it means, that the glory of God, and we already saw this idea back in verse 11. So, verse 11 and verse 23, both say, the glory of God is what this whole thing is all about. That’s why I wrote my book the way I did. You want to know what heaven is about? It’s an eternal education in the glory of God. Why do I say eternal education? Because we’ll never be omniscient. And because God’s glory is infinite in its dimensions and colors and hues, we have forever to learn how glorious God is. That’s what I look on. So, God is going to be shining constantly, and he’s going to be shining in us. Jesus will say in our resurrection bodies, the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of our fathers.
And so, we’re going to shine with the glory of God. Now you asked, what do the rest of the verses talk about what life will be like? Well, it’s a fascinating question. It says the nations will walk by its light, namely the light of the glory of God. And by the way, I love how it says, the Lamb is its lamp. So that reminds me of Hebrews 1:3, which says, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory.” All right? So, Jesus shines with the glory of God. When it was said, when they said, the apostle said, “Show us the Father, and it will be enough for us.” And Jesus said, “Don’t you know me, Philip, after I’ve been with you all this time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, show us the Father?” (John 14:9). So to look at Jesus is to look at the glory of God. And so, Jesus the Lamb is its lamp. I also like the way it says, the Lamb is its lamp. What that means is that we’ll forever be celebrating the death of Jesus. He died once, for all, but we’re going to be celebrating it forever. And so, we’ll always remember, it was by the blood of Jesus, that we are even there, Wes, that we are there. The new Jerusalem is blood bought. The whole thing is blood bought. It was very costly.
All right, now what will life be like? The nations will walk by the light of the glory of God through Jesus, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor to it. What does that tell me? It tells me that there’s a hierarchy of authority, that created beings will rule, and others will submit to their authority. So, it’s not all egalitarian, it’s not all equal. And so those with rulership, like the parable of the minas, the one who had taken the one mina, and turned it into 10 minas got 10 cities. He was in charge of 10 cities. You’re like, wait a minute, cities? There’s the new Jerusalem. Isn’t that city enough? Oh, it’s city enough. But it doesn’t mean there won’t be other cities. It could be there’s this capital city, and then there are lesser cities, and we all kind of gather together time to time, or regularly, et cetera.
I don’t know. When I don’t know, I say I don’t know. But the kings of the nations will walk by the light of the glory of God, and they will bring their glory into it, meaning the kings will have their own glory, but it’s not separate from the glory of God. And I think what that means is, we’re going to be creative and in our resurrection bodies, in that resurrected world, we’re going to do things, and we’re going to bring those things in, that we will do. We make luxuries skillfully, for the glory of God, and we will lay them before the throne. And so, the things we will do in our resurrection bodies, we will bring before the throne of God. Also, to some degree, we will be continually offering what we did while we lived in this world. So, our rewards will be reminders of the things we did for God. And God will still live in that moment. God loves living in the past and will get to live in the past, but we won’t only live in the past. We’ll live in the present, and we’ll be moving toward the future.
And so, we will do creative, energetic things, and bring those into the city, and give glory to it. So, this idea of a stream of nations bringing riches into Zion is in Isaiah 60. It’s a very rich image there in Isaiah 60, caravans coming and bringing good stuff. So that’s very much in that Old Testament language. But the idea here in the new Jerusalem is, commerce, busyness, energy, structure, society, authority, submission to authority, order, all of it by the glory of God, and for the glory of God. And then it says, On no day will its gates ever be shut for there’ll be no night there.
So, people are kind of bummed about that. They’re bummed about there not being sun, moon, or stars, or the sea. All I’m saying is, you’re going to be happy, you’ll be fine. You’ll be fine with it. No night there. So, there’s no darkness, because it says, God created light, and he called the light good. He even called the darkness good. And generally in the Bible, darkness is evil. It’s bad. So, there’s not going to be any evil. And the gates will always be open, because there’s no threats, there’s no evil. There’s no threats, there’s no danger. It’s all done, will stream in there. And nothing impure will enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those names who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. We already covered that on Judgment Day. They’re already cleared, once for all. But John is circling back on that, this is not universalism. I think again, as you read this, we’re still in the present age of the gospel.
And the idea is a warning to repent of our sins, and trust in Christ while we can. So, if we’re on the outside, we’ll be in hell. If you’re not allowed to enter the new Jerusalem, you’re not in some lesser society, you’d be in hell. And so, the idea is, make certain that your name is written in the Lamb’s book of life, by repenting and believing in Jesus, because nothing impure will enter that holy city, but only those whose names are written in that Lamb’s book of life.
Wes
Andy, this is just an amazing description of that future toward which we’re bound. What final thoughts do you have for us, as we just reflect on the glory, really the glory of God, but on display in the new Jerusalem, as we wrap up our time today?
Andy
Wes. Final thoughts? I don’t think there are any final thoughts. I’m going to keep … I know you mean for the podcast, but I mean, I have been thinking and thinking and thinking about these things for years. And I remember, when I hadn’t finished writing the book, or I was still working on it, I would have new heaven ideas, and my daughter, Carolyn would send me, “Hey Dad, I was thinking about this for your book,” and I have all of these iPad notes on heaven stuff. I have like 20 of them, with little ideas and insights, and all that. It just kept going and going. And so, to me, I guess my final idea here is, dear friend, meditate on heaven. Think about it a lot. Think about these things. This is not some kind of guilty pleasure. We should think about this constantly, and be filled with hope, and joy in our future heavenly glory.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 30 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time, for Episode 31 entitled, The River of Life, where we’ll discuss Revelation 22:1-6. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
