podcast

Revelation Episode 23: The Great Harlot and the Beast

November 06, 2024

podcast | EP23
Revelation Episode 23: The Great Harlot and the Beast

Revelation 17 conveys a repeated biblical lesson: love for the world equates to enmity with God. The prophecies in the chapter warn of worldly power enticing people away from Him.

Wes

Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study Podcast. This is episode 23 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Great Harlot and the Beast, where we’ll discuss Revelation 17:1-18. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?

Andy

Well, Revelation 17 and 18 expose the great threat of the world system which John reveals in symbolic form as a harlot, a prostitute called Babylon, Babylon the Great. So, the question in front of us as Christian readers in the 21st century is, what warnings can we take of the world that John says we should not love? “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (1 John 2:15). The lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, the threat that the world is to our soul. But it’s also an apocalyptic prediction of the end of the world system and its corruption in the reign of Antichrist. And what Christ will do to bring judgment on it. Ultimately, I think both of these chapters come down to a warning in Revelation 18:4-5 which is for Christians to flee Babylon and not share in her sins so that we’ll not share in any of her plagues or in her judgments.

Wes

Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 17 as we begin.

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

“This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

Andy, who is John’s guide in this chapter, and what does he tell John he’s going to show him?

Andy

In 17:1, it says one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls. Now, we just went through in chapter 16 the seven bowl judgments that are poured out by angels on the earth, bringing about such a radical and comprehensive destruction on the ecology of the earth that it’s very difficult for us to imagine that life could be long sustained. You can go back to the earlier podcast to find out how devastating that is, but it was an angel, and an angel was guiding John in his vision.

We should also note a very strong verbal parallel between Revelation 17:1 and Revelation 21:9. Both of them are revealing a symbolic woman, a prophetic woman. Here, we have a harlot, a wicked woman, Babylon the great. In Revelation 21:9 and following, we have the Bride of Christ. So, both of these women are radiant and beautiful in their own way, but the harlot is alluring and disgusting and dark and corrupt. Whereas the bride of Christ is radiant with the glory of Christ and of God. But both of them are introduced in a visionary sense by one of the angels who has the seven last bowls saying, “Come, I will show you.” So, there’s a parallelism between the two.

Wes

Why is the image of a harlot seated on many waters used here, and what is the nature of her judgment?

Andy

The concept of harlotry, or prostitution, or adultery is very important. We were talking about it before the podcast began. And I think that there is a sexual side to it in that it’s one of the great weaknesses of humans in their sinful condition, is sexual immorality. It’s one of the strongest drives and loves that there is in this world that God put in us. And Satan is able to turn that drive and to corrupt it so that we commit fornication or adultery. Frequently, it was wrapped up in religious systems. Pagan worship services and systems were tied to temple prostitutes that involved literal sex.

But there’s also a vertical or spiritual aspect to it, too, in which God finds all sin of any type to be a form of spiritual adultery. We should have loved him with all of our hearts, soul, mind, and strength, and therefore, have been pure and obeyed him and done what he told us to do. When we don’t, he finds that adulterous. So, we see this often in, for example, Ezekiel 16 with Jerusalem being likened to a harlot. And again, here, with this in Revelation 17-18 with Babylon being presented as a harlot. So, I think it’s the great danger of sexual immorality, literal sexual immorality, but also the metaphor of spiritual unfaithfulness to God. He should be the one we love above anything else, and any sin is a form of spiritual adultery.

Wes

Now, who are the kings of the earth that we’re introduced to in verse 2, and how are the inhabitants of the earth intoxicated with the wine of the great prostitute’s adulteries?

Andy

Okay, and I don’t know that I fully answered your question a moment ago. The prostitute is the world system, and the world system is presented as a whore, a prostitute alluring an individual. The Bible is written generally from a masculine point of view, a man away from faithfulness to immorality. So, the world system in its allure, and then the kings of the earth that committed adultery with her and the inhabitants of the earth, all of them are drawn in by the world system. So, the world, again, is the physical system taking good blessings from God and pushing them beyond boundaries that God has set up. So, eating becomes gluttony, marital relations becomes adultery and immorality, drinking of wine becomes drunkenness… I mean, desire for good things in this life, which is fine, becomes an addiction to luxuries and pleasures. So, the world system is alluring and enticing, and everyone is sucked in by it. They all want the things the world has to offer. So, it’s the kings of the earth committed adultery with the prostitute and so also the peoples of the world.

Wes

Now, why do you think the Spirit carries John to a desert, and what’s the significance of the vision he sees there according to verse 3?

Andy

This world system does not produce any eternal fruit for God. It is fruitless.

Well, remember that I said there was a parallelism between Revelation 17 and Revelation 21. In the vision of the Bride of Christ, he’s called away to a lofty mountain. So, it’s a mountaintop experience. Here, we have a dry desert. So, the idea here is one of sterility. It’s one of fruitlessness. This world system does not produce any eternal fruit for God. It is fruitless. It does not bear fruit for the kingdom of God and for the glory of God, so it’s a desert. So, the angel carries him away to the desert, and the desert is, as I said, symbolic of fruitlessness, a life not lived for the glory of God. It has no eternal consequence, so it’s apart from the blessing of God like the thorns and thistles. It’s a cursed life.

“There,” he says, “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.” Then, in verse 4 the woman herself was dressed in purple and scarlet. So, we have a scarlet beast and basically, a scarlet-clad woman. So, the woman is riding a beast. What a strange image we have, and we know that the beast in the earlier vision in Revelation 13 represents the Antichrist. So, there is a conjunction here between the adulterous, alluring world system and the beast which is the governmental system that has conquered the world, ultimately led by one particular individual.

Now, the relationship between the woman and the beast is difficult. In the vision, the woman is riding the beast. So, she’s either leading the beast where she wants it to go, like somebody, an equestrian, somebody who’s riding the horse is controlling the horse by bit and bridle. But it doesn’t seem that here. Rather, it’s that the beast is supporting the woman and enabling her to live her luxurious, comfortable lifestyle, but ultimately, he’s the one in charge. I think that’s more likely the image because the focus from a certain point in this chapter on is on the beast and his power, and all that.

So, I would say the way we look at it is this. We’ve got the evil world empire and the evil world system. How do they relate to each other? The prostitute represents the pleasures and luxuries and allures of the world. The beast represents the governing power, the tyrannical power that is going to dominate the world ultimately in the form of an antichrist, a single ruler. So, we’re seeing the conjunction between the two.

Wes

So in verse 3, we have this woman sitting on a scarlet beast that we’ve just seen described. How is the woman described in verse 4, and what do all of these details teach us?

Andy

All right. So, the woman is a woman of luxury and a woman of pleasure. She’s dressed in purple and scarlet. And we learn from some research, wouldn’t have known it any other way, but it pops up from time to time that the color purple or scarlet, which is just a different shade of purple, represents luxury. It represents very wealthy people because we learn that purple cloth comes from a dye which comes from mollusks like snails or clams that are harvested from the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea at great cost. And you need thousands of these little creatures to make just a single gram of purple dye. Therefore, an entire purple robe must have been just pretty close to priceless, and so anyone dressed or clad in purple, that’s a wealthy person. So, this is luxury. So, she’s dressed in purple.

Also, some scholars believe that the scarlet beast and the woman dressed in scarlet also reminds us of the blood. She’s drunk on the blood of the saints, and so she is a bloodthirsty being. So often it happens that people get wealthy, they enjoy luxury by crushing other people, by killing them literally, by taking from them what belongs to them. You think about, for example, Nazi Germany. They got wealthy by literally plundering the Jews and stealing from them things that they had accumulated. And putting them in concentration camps and literally killing them. So, their wealth came from blood in that case.

Well, in this case, I think that purple image is one of luxury, but also one of being bloodthirsty. She is wearing also gold. She’s glittering in gold, precious stones, pearls. So, this is all pointing toward luxury. Also, she has a kind of fake beauty. Like you think of like a rhinestone versus a genuine diamond. So, she is glittery, and shiny, and all that. Again, that alluring system. She holds a golden cup in her hand, and it’s said to be filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. She’s also drunk with the blood of the saints. So, she’s drinking blood, and she’s drinking adultery. She’s drinking luxury, and she’s drunk on it. So, again, you get a picture of a woman of leisure, laying on a couch, enjoying life, with slaves bringing her her food and her drink, and she’s just that kind of a person. She’s overwhelmingly luxurious and immoral, wicked.

Wes

What name is written on her head, and what is the significance of this name that we find in verse 5?

Andy

Okay. There’s, in my Bible here, four lines. The first word is by itself “mystery.” Then, the next line says, “Babylon the great.” Then, the next line says, “The mother of prostitutes,” and then the next line, “And of the abominations of the earth.” So, it’s just this is the Book of Revelation. It’s just all this symbolic language, and each line, each word needs to be interpreted. So, it begins… First of all, the title is written on her forehead, so this is who she is. It’s who she’s represented, this symbol represents, and it begins with the word “mystery.”

So the sense there with “mystery” is, first of all, I think, of the hiddenness. She is not what she appears to be. There are mysteries behind her. She has a past. Think of it that way, and it reminds me of the mystery religions that were popular in those days where you would be an initiate, and you wouldn’t know all the secrets. Then, little by little, you learn more and more of these deep, dark secrets. It’s mentioned in Revelation 2 of Jezebel who is a prophetess and who is teaching people the deep secrets of Satan. So, you could even think about witchcraft and certain incantations or potions, or certain rituals that they would go through. There’s a mystery to it, but I think it’s also the world system is not what it appears to be. There is a dark mystery behind it, a satanic darkness that Satan hides.

Babylon the Great. Now, we have the word “Babylon.” Now, Babylon was a city, obviously, a historical city where King Nebuchadnezzar reigned. It was the place to which the exiles were taken when the Babylonian Empire was established. And so, it was just a place, and it’s also a city. It’s called Babylon the great because it was a great and powerful city, but what’s interesting is by this time, Babylon has received the judgment of God. As the prophet Isaiah and other prophets, Jeremiah said it would be completely destroyed and not one stone left on another. So, eventually, it was destroyed, though not right away, little by little. By the time Rome ascended, Babylon was nothing. It was a desert. So why the word Babylon?

Well, in 1 Peter 5:13, Peter, who church history and tradition tells us, was in the city of Rome, wrote these words, “She who is in Babylon chosen together with you sends you her greetings and so does my son, Mark.” So, what is he saying there? Rome equals Babylon. So, what does that mean? Babylon, the idea of Babylon, a world dominating, wicked, pagan, luxurious, militarily conquering empire city moves, geographical location moves. It’s moved from Babylon, literal Babylon to the city of Rome. I believe it has not stopped moving. I think once Rome fell, Babylon was moving to another center of power, center of luxury. So, it’s a transferable location of where the luxury, and the power, and the military strength has coalesced. Babylon the great. So, this woman, this world system represents Babylon, the world system.

The mother of prostitutes. Again, the word “prostitution” refers to spiritual adultery, and she’s the mother of, the queen of it all. She’s in charge of it. She’s in charge of that system and of the abominations of the earth. These things are great wickedness in the sight of God. That’s how she’s identified, and in verse 6, as I mentioned, I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, those who bore testimony to Jesus. She hates Christians. She’s against them. She loves to see them suffer and die. So, as we saw earlier in Revelation 16 when the waters were turned to blood, he said, “It’s right for you to do that because they’ve shed the blood of your people.”

Wes

Having seen all this, John is breathless. He is overwhelmed by the vision that he’s seen to this point. At the end of verse 6, we’re told, “When I saw her, I marveled greatly.” Verse 7 comes, and we see the angel respond. How does the angel respond to John, and what does this teach us about the Book of Revelation itself and its deep mysteries?

Andy

Well, first of all, don’t be surprised. You shouldn’t be astonished. You shouldn’t be surprised. So, I think what it is that wickedness or evil is drawn out like some great dark, gross monster from the Black Lagoon, this kind of thing, this swamp creature. It’s hideous, and huge, and big, and evil tentacles everywhere. John is blown away. “I just did not realize how dark and evil the world system is.” The angel says, “Don’t be astonished. Don’t be amazed. You should have known this.” Then, he says, “I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that she rides which has the 7 heads in the 10 horns.” So he’s going to go on from there to describe the beast. It is interesting from verse 7 on. He doesn’t talk much about the woman. It really is the focus is on the beast.

Wes

What does the angel tell John about the beast, and what does it mean that he will come from the abyss?

Andy

Yeah, the beast. We already saw this, the beast in Revelation 13 hearkens back to the four beasts that come up out of the sea in Daniel’s vision. The beast represents successive world empires. The one beast then, in my opinion, represents a consolidated final world empire, and hence the number of kings. It’s bewildering. The 7 heads or 7 hills and 7 kings. Five have come, and one is, and one is yet to come, all that. So, you got 7 kings, and then we got 10 horns. What are they? Well, they’re 10 other kings. So, you got kings, and kings, and kings, lots of kings.

So, I think the way we harmonize all that is that the Antichrist rules the world system which is made up of sub-kings who have come together to give their power to the Antichrist and to submit to him. I would imagine with the ecological disaster that comes on the earth with the trumpet judgments and then with the bowl judgments, but especially with the trumpet judgments that happened earlier perhaps in the final 7-year reign or however many years that is, the ecology of the earth is greatly damaged, though not totally destroyed.

People, rulers come together like in a United Nations kind of thing and say, “Hey, what are we going to do?” The Antichrist who is one man, one ruler by intrigue, Daniel 11, and by smooth talk, and by flattery, and by conniving, and by making backroom deals, little by little by little, ascends until he rules the whole thing, and then he shows his real nature. He becomes an overt tyrant. So, the 7 heads or 7 hills, talk about that in a minute, and 7 kings, and then there’s 10 horns which represent 10 kings. They all come together for one purpose which is to give their power to the Antichrist.

I look on this as a consolidation of the power of government around the world coalescing in one final evil world empire. The beast is the Antichrist’s world empire. So, the beast John is told once was, now is not, and will come up out of the abyss, and go to his destruction. So, it’s very complicated. The abyss was a place of punishment for demons. In Revelation 9, an angel descends and unlocks the abyss, and billowing smoke comes up out of it. So, you get the sense that this is a demonic thing. This is a deep, dark, demonic world empire system.

What it means that the beast once was, now is not, and will come? It could be just there are aspects of the empire which aren’t seen in John’s day. It wasn’t there in John’s day, but it is coming in the future. It’s rather difficult to interpret in great detail, but it’s a sense of different phases. But then, there’s a final version of that beast that comes up that rules the entire world, and it will ultimately go to destruction because Jesus is going to destroy it.

The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast because he once was, now isn’t, and yet to come. So, I think the idea is also hearkening back to the miraculous resurrection of the beast where it seems like he was killed and then comes back to life. So, there’s that kind of language here, and anyone who is not elect will be so blown away and so amazed, so worshipful toward this, they’ll receive the mark of the beast, and they’ll go to hell ultimately. But the elect will not be deceived by any of this.

Wes

Now, why do you think the angel says, “This calls for a mind with wisdom,” and what do the seven hills represent in verse 9?

Andy

All right. So, in other places, Jesus calls for wisdom if anyone has understanding, and he links it to the abomination of desolation. So, as I’ve studied the abomination of desolation, Jesus said, “When you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel” (Matthew 24:15). So, the calling for wisdom, in my opinion, usually involves a deep understanding of scripture coupled with current events. So, when you see this thing that happens that lines up with these many prophecies, that’s when you’ll see it. So, I think it’s that language of abomination of desolation and the Antichrist. So, it calls for wisdom.

Then, the seven heads, we’re told, are seven hills on which the woman sits. Now, if you’ve been living in John’s day under the domination of Rome, there’s no doubt you would think Rome. Seven hills, Rome. All right? So, I think that that’s the place to start. But as I’ve already said, the spirit of Babylon having moved from the original geographical location of Babylon to Rome shows that it can move. We know that since that time, Rome itself has been defeated by various barbarian tribes and sank down to the dust of history. So, Rome is nothing now. I guess a tourist destination, et cetera, but certainly, not a world-dominating empire or power. Not at all.

So, I would say then though the seven hills definitely represent Rome in John’s day, the beast represents… the seven hills represents power, human ego, elevation. If you look at Isaiah 2, God is against every lofty thing, every high tree, every mountain and hill. And his enemy in Isaiah 2 is human pride and arrogance. So, the seven hills represent, ultimately, human exaltation and elevation and ego in the form of an empire. So, this is a beast, and ego, and power. The seven hills represent initially Rome, but ultimately, all human ego and power ruling the earth.

Wes

We’re told that the number seven doesn’t just refer to these hills. In verse 10, we’re told that the number seven represents something else. What do we learn in verse 10 about this number seven?

Andy

As I mentioned, seven kings. Five we’re told have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. I don’t know what that means. And I’m telling you what. If you go through, what, 21 chapters of Revelation, and you don’t at some point, say, “I don’t know,” then, I don’t know about you. I think you’re too confident. It’s a difficult book. I don’t know what it means, they haven’t come yet. I think ultimately, there are going to be an agglomeration of many kings who are lesser than the final great king, Antichrist. Therefore, he is in some wicked, evil parody, a king of kings and lord of lords. He’s ruling over people who give to him their power.

So, we’ve got these seven kings here, and we’re about to talk about 10 horns, and there are 10 more kings. So, I think there’s a sequence of kings. Some interpreters say this is probably five emperors that have… They’ve fallen now, and then there’s one yet to come. You could do all that, but I don’t really know how that helps us in the 21st century. It’s not a certain interpretation anyway. I think in general, the best way here is to say the Antichrist didn’t get world domination all by his lonesome. He did it by politics, he did it by conniving, and he did it by other people who were powerful but who decided to yield to his power. So, these 7 kings here and then the 10 kings and all that represent those lesser kings whose power go together in a conglomeration or in an alliance to give the Antichrist his power.

Wes

Now, another mystery that arises in verse 11 is the identity of this eighth king that’s mentioned. How does the angel describe him in verse 11, and what does he mean in saying he is not?

Andy

Well, it says in verse 11, “The beast who once was and now is, is an eighth king, and he belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.” I just think that’s the Antichrist. In my opinion, 17:11 is the Antichrist. He’s called the beast in other places. In what sense he once was and now is? I think you’ve heard, “Many antichrists have come and now one is coming” (1 John 2:18). So, there’s the spirit of the Antichrist, but there is one yet to come, and he is going to his destruction because Jesus is going to destroy him.

Wes

How does the angel interpret the 10 horns on the beast in verses 12-13?

Andy

Yeah. I’ve said it three or four times, but they are 10 kings who give their power to the beast, and they reign for an hour. So, it’s like at the end of the world, there’s going to be these 10 powerful men who come together to give the Antichrist his power, and they reign along with the beast. They have one purpose. It says clearly in verse 13, to give their power and authority to the beast. So, there it is.

Wes

We talked about verse 14 a little before we got on the podcast as well. What does verse 14 teach us about the kings of the earth who gave their power to the beast, and how does this verse depict the final victory of Christ and his Father?

Andy

Okay. So, the kings together with the Antichrist come together to make war against the Lamb, that’s against Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Well, guess what? They’re going to lose. I love 17:14 because it’s just so beautiful. It just causes me to worship. Wes, you and I were talking about this. It’s like, “Of course, they’re going to lose. He’s going to overcome them because he is the Lord of lords and King of kings. He’s the real deal. He is God incarnate, and he is going to destroy them.”

It’s just Psalm 2. Why do the nations rage, and the kings of the earth take their stand against the Lord and against his anointed? The one enthroned in heaven laughs, and then he destroys them. So, this is not even a contest. He is the omnipotent God. He’s infinitely above the highest heavens, so there is no chance. Actually, it’s a very understated verse, verse 14. They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings. It’s just a beautiful statement.

With him will be all of his followers, so he’s coming on their behalf. I think with him, it’s intentional. I think what happens is the Antichrist with his conglomeration of kings come together for the purpose of destroying Christians. I think, therefore, the sovereign God is using them as bait for that very purpose. He wants them all in one place like all the rotten eggs in one basket. They’re all coming to Armageddon. They’re coming to a specific place to the end of killing the Christians that are left on earth, and Jesus comes back in Revelation 19 to destroy them and protect his people.

Wes

What’s the significance of the interpretation of the waters on which the woman sits that comes in verse 15?

Andy

The waters, we’re told directly, are peoples, multitudes, nations, languages. It’s the world, and so fundamentally, the waters represent the undulating, powerful, chaotic worlds of people, of human beings who are not Christians. They are created in the image of God. They are intelligent, they’re purposeful, powerful, going in thousands of different directions. How God can sovereignly rule over that is just staggering. I was recently in the city of Boston visiting family, and I was just thinking about this. About this person going that way, that person going that way, cars going this way, buses, planes overhead, all human beings going every direction in the city of Boston, and it’s just one city.

I’m like, “God, how do you control all this? You got all of these people created in your image with incredible minds, all of them purposeful, doing things, hardly any of them doing it for your glory. How do you rule this?” So, I look on the waters as the undulating, chaotic powers of humanity, and that lines up with Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. Up out of the chaotic ocean come these beasts. So that represents the peoples and many nations. We also see in the Book of Isaiah, it says, “Oh, the raging of the nations, they rage like the raging of the sea.” So, there’s this sense of chaos… Without any peace, they are not tranquil. They are stormy and destructive.

Wes

Why do the evil leaders turn on the harlot in verse 16, and how do verses 17 and 18 teach us about the sovereignty of God over all these events and serve as an interpretive key for the whole chapter?

Andy

Yeah, 16 is a hard verse. The beast and the 10 horns will hate the prostitute. It’s like, “Well, I thought the prostitute is evil. Oh, she is. Well, I thought the beast is evil. Oh, he is. The 10 horns are evil. They’re all evil.” So, all right. What sense do we make of it? The prostitute then represents the pleasures and allures of this world. I guess what I would say is fundamentally, behind all of it, behind the prostitute, the world, behind the beast, the Antichrist, behind the 10 evil kings and their power is Satan. And Satan doesn’t love any of them. He hates them all. He doesn’t have any favorite people. He hates all people because they’re all created in the image of God. He’s a murderer. He wants to kill them all.

I mean, think of it this way, Nazi Germany invading Soviet Russia. Who is Satan rooting for? He’s not rooting for any of them. He wants them all dead, and they did kill each other. Millions of dead Germans and Russians. Most of them not knowing the Lord. He’s a murderer. It’s just carnage. So, I think fundamentally then, if the prostitute represents the pleasures and allures of this world, Satan doesn’t want to give pleasure to anyone. C.S. Lewis talked about this in Screwtape Letters where Screwtape is talking to Wormwood about how to tempt people. It’s like we don’t want to give pleasure to any human being. We are willing to put up with it for a little while, but little by little by little, we want to wean them off of pleasure so that they are addicted to something they hate.

You think about an addict addicted to heroin or to some other thing. Do they love the drug? No, they hate it. They are addicted to it, and they hate it. So, you get the sense also, I hate to even mention it, but I think about when Amnon raped Tamar. When he was done with her, he hated her. He absolutely hated her. It’s just a strange thing. So, I think fundamentally, they turn on the prostitute because they are anti-pleasure, because they’re demonic, and so they don’t love anything. They turn on pleasure, they turn on luxury, they turn on everything because they are demonic, and they hate every good thing that God could ever give.

So, the beast and the 10 horns turn on the prostitute. They strip her. They destroy her. They eat her flesh. They burn her with fire. Then, in verse 17, it says, “God has put it into their hearts,” which is the beast and the 10 horns, “to accomplish his purpose, to agree by agreeing, to give the beast their power to rule until God’s words are fulfilled.” So, fundamentally, what it says there is God is ruling over everything that happens on earth. Verse 18, “The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” We don’t have to wonder about it. It is the world system, and so fundamentally, God is orchestrating all of this for the praise of his glory.

We were enticed to learn evil. God’s purpose, therefore, instead of destroying that world and making a second world that knew nothing about the first world, he ran with it, ran the present world.

I think of it this way. This is probably one of the most helpful interpretive keys that I’ve ever discerned for the entire Bible in all of history, and it has to do with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were enticed to learn evil. God’s purpose, therefore, instead of destroying that world and making a second world that knew nothing about the first world, he ran with it, ran the present world. He’s like, “All right. You want to know evil? I’ll show it to you.” So, for all of what we call redemptive history has been a history of evil. This is the culmination of it, and God is orchestrating this to show us what it’s like. It is anti-pleasure. It is violent, bloodthirsty, immoral, corrupt, chaotic. It is evil straight through.

So, when we see this thing running out to its final conclusion with the second coming of Christ and carnage, just slaughter of all of these kings, and their armies, and all that that are there to kill the Christians, we just see in the end, “Oh, okay. That’s what evil looks like. It is evil. I hate it,” and we will be conformed to Christ and spend eternity loving righteousness and hating wickedness. So, ultimately, this whole chaotic, complex story, and it is complex because we’ve been talking on this podcast for a long time. All right? So going through the details of Revelation 17, it is very complex. God is ruling over all of it for his own purposes. What is that? Our salvation, our delight in his glory, and his revelation of what wickedness and evil is really like. God rules over all of it.

Wes

This has been Episode 23 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 24 entitled Babylon Has Fallen where we’ll discuss Revelation 18:1-24. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys Podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Wes

Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study Podcast. This is episode 23 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Great Harlot and the Beast, where we’ll discuss Revelation 17:1-18. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?

Andy

Well, Revelation 17 and 18 expose the great threat of the world system which John reveals in symbolic form as a harlot, a prostitute called Babylon, Babylon the Great. So, the question in front of us as Christian readers in the 21st century is, what warnings can we take of the world that John says we should not love? “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him” (1 John 2:15). The lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life, the threat that the world is to our soul. But it’s also an apocalyptic prediction of the end of the world system and its corruption in the reign of Antichrist. And what Christ will do to bring judgment on it. Ultimately, I think both of these chapters come down to a warning in Revelation 18:4-5 which is for Christians to flee Babylon and not share in her sins so that we’ll not share in any of her plagues or in her judgments.

Wes

Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 17 as we begin.

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

“This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

Andy, who is John’s guide in this chapter, and what does he tell John he’s going to show him?

Andy

In 17:1, it says one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls. Now, we just went through in chapter 16 the seven bowl judgments that are poured out by angels on the earth, bringing about such a radical and comprehensive destruction on the ecology of the earth that it’s very difficult for us to imagine that life could be long sustained. You can go back to the earlier podcast to find out how devastating that is, but it was an angel, and an angel was guiding John in his vision.

We should also note a very strong verbal parallel between Revelation 17:1 and Revelation 21:9. Both of them are revealing a symbolic woman, a prophetic woman. Here, we have a harlot, a wicked woman, Babylon the great. In Revelation 21:9 and following, we have the Bride of Christ. So, both of these women are radiant and beautiful in their own way, but the harlot is alluring and disgusting and dark and corrupt. Whereas the bride of Christ is radiant with the glory of Christ and of God. But both of them are introduced in a visionary sense by one of the angels who has the seven last bowls saying, “Come, I will show you.” So, there’s a parallelism between the two.

Wes

Why is the image of a harlot seated on many waters used here, and what is the nature of her judgment?

Andy

The concept of harlotry, or prostitution, or adultery is very important. We were talking about it before the podcast began. And I think that there is a sexual side to it in that it’s one of the great weaknesses of humans in their sinful condition, is sexual immorality. It’s one of the strongest drives and loves that there is in this world that God put in us. And Satan is able to turn that drive and to corrupt it so that we commit fornication or adultery. Frequently, it was wrapped up in religious systems. Pagan worship services and systems were tied to temple prostitutes that involved literal sex.

But there’s also a vertical or spiritual aspect to it, too, in which God finds all sin of any type to be a form of spiritual adultery. We should have loved him with all of our hearts, soul, mind, and strength, and therefore, have been pure and obeyed him and done what he told us to do. When we don’t, he finds that adulterous. So, we see this often in, for example, Ezekiel 16 with Jerusalem being likened to a harlot. And again, here, with this in Revelation 17-18 with Babylon being presented as a harlot. So, I think it’s the great danger of sexual immorality, literal sexual immorality, but also the metaphor of spiritual unfaithfulness to God. He should be the one we love above anything else, and any sin is a form of spiritual adultery.

Wes

Now, who are the kings of the earth that we’re introduced to in verse 2, and how are the inhabitants of the earth intoxicated with the wine of the great prostitute’s adulteries?

Andy

Okay, and I don’t know that I fully answered your question a moment ago. The prostitute is the world system, and the world system is presented as a whore, a prostitute alluring an individual. The Bible is written generally from a masculine point of view, a man away from faithfulness to immorality. So, the world system in its allure, and then the kings of the earth that committed adultery with her and the inhabitants of the earth, all of them are drawn in by the world system. So, the world, again, is the physical system taking good blessings from God and pushing them beyond boundaries that God has set up. So, eating becomes gluttony, marital relations becomes adultery and immorality, drinking of wine becomes drunkenness… I mean, desire for good things in this life, which is fine, becomes an addiction to luxuries and pleasures. So, the world system is alluring and enticing, and everyone is sucked in by it. They all want the things the world has to offer. So, it’s the kings of the earth committed adultery with the prostitute and so also the peoples of the world.

Wes

Now, why do you think the Spirit carries John to a desert, and what’s the significance of the vision he sees there according to verse 3?

Andy

This world system does not produce any eternal fruit for God. It is fruitless.

Well, remember that I said there was a parallelism between Revelation 17 and Revelation 21. In the vision of the Bride of Christ, he’s called away to a lofty mountain. So, it’s a mountaintop experience. Here, we have a dry desert. So, the idea here is one of sterility. It’s one of fruitlessness. This world system does not produce any eternal fruit for God. It is fruitless. It does not bear fruit for the kingdom of God and for the glory of God, so it’s a desert. So, the angel carries him away to the desert, and the desert is, as I said, symbolic of fruitlessness, a life not lived for the glory of God. It has no eternal consequence, so it’s apart from the blessing of God like the thorns and thistles. It’s a cursed life.

“There,” he says, “I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.” Then, in verse 4 the woman herself was dressed in purple and scarlet. So, we have a scarlet beast and basically, a scarlet-clad woman. So, the woman is riding a beast. What a strange image we have, and we know that the beast in the earlier vision in Revelation 13 represents the Antichrist. So, there is a conjunction here between the adulterous, alluring world system and the beast which is the governmental system that has conquered the world, ultimately led by one particular individual.

Now, the relationship between the woman and the beast is difficult. In the vision, the woman is riding the beast. So, she’s either leading the beast where she wants it to go, like somebody, an equestrian, somebody who’s riding the horse is controlling the horse by bit and bridle. But it doesn’t seem that here. Rather, it’s that the beast is supporting the woman and enabling her to live her luxurious, comfortable lifestyle, but ultimately, he’s the one in charge. I think that’s more likely the image because the focus from a certain point in this chapter on is on the beast and his power, and all that.

So, I would say the way we look at it is this. We’ve got the evil world empire and the evil world system. How do they relate to each other? The prostitute represents the pleasures and luxuries and allures of the world. The beast represents the governing power, the tyrannical power that is going to dominate the world ultimately in the form of an antichrist, a single ruler. So, we’re seeing the conjunction between the two.

Wes

So in verse 3, we have this woman sitting on a scarlet beast that we’ve just seen described. How is the woman described in verse 4, and what do all of these details teach us?

Andy

All right. So, the woman is a woman of luxury and a woman of pleasure. She’s dressed in purple and scarlet. And we learn from some research, wouldn’t have known it any other way, but it pops up from time to time that the color purple or scarlet, which is just a different shade of purple, represents luxury. It represents very wealthy people because we learn that purple cloth comes from a dye which comes from mollusks like snails or clams that are harvested from the bottom of the Mediterranean Sea at great cost. And you need thousands of these little creatures to make just a single gram of purple dye. Therefore, an entire purple robe must have been just pretty close to priceless, and so anyone dressed or clad in purple, that’s a wealthy person. So, this is luxury. So, she’s dressed in purple.

Also, some scholars believe that the scarlet beast and the woman dressed in scarlet also reminds us of the blood. She’s drunk on the blood of the saints, and so she is a bloodthirsty being. So often it happens that people get wealthy, they enjoy luxury by crushing other people, by killing them literally, by taking from them what belongs to them. You think about, for example, Nazi Germany. They got wealthy by literally plundering the Jews and stealing from them things that they had accumulated. And putting them in concentration camps and literally killing them. So, their wealth came from blood in that case.

Well, in this case, I think that purple image is one of luxury, but also one of being bloodthirsty. She is wearing also gold. She’s glittering in gold, precious stones, pearls. So, this is all pointing toward luxury. Also, she has a kind of fake beauty. Like you think of like a rhinestone versus a genuine diamond. So, she is glittery, and shiny, and all that. Again, that alluring system. She holds a golden cup in her hand, and it’s said to be filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. She’s also drunk with the blood of the saints. So, she’s drinking blood, and she’s drinking adultery. She’s drinking luxury, and she’s drunk on it. So, again, you get a picture of a woman of leisure, laying on a couch, enjoying life, with slaves bringing her her food and her drink, and she’s just that kind of a person. She’s overwhelmingly luxurious and immoral, wicked.

Wes

What name is written on her head, and what is the significance of this name that we find in verse 5?

Andy

Okay. There’s, in my Bible here, four lines. The first word is by itself “mystery.” Then, the next line says, “Babylon the great.” Then, the next line says, “The mother of prostitutes,” and then the next line, “And of the abominations of the earth.” So, it’s just this is the Book of Revelation. It’s just all this symbolic language, and each line, each word needs to be interpreted. So, it begins… First of all, the title is written on her forehead, so this is who she is. It’s who she’s represented, this symbol represents, and it begins with the word “mystery.”

So the sense there with “mystery” is, first of all, I think, of the hiddenness. She is not what she appears to be. There are mysteries behind her. She has a past. Think of it that way, and it reminds me of the mystery religions that were popular in those days where you would be an initiate, and you wouldn’t know all the secrets. Then, little by little, you learn more and more of these deep, dark secrets. It’s mentioned in Revelation 2 of Jezebel who is a prophetess and who is teaching people the deep secrets of Satan. So, you could even think about witchcraft and certain incantations or potions, or certain rituals that they would go through. There’s a mystery to it, but I think it’s also the world system is not what it appears to be. There is a dark mystery behind it, a satanic darkness that Satan hides.

Babylon the Great. Now, we have the word “Babylon.” Now, Babylon was a city, obviously, a historical city where King Nebuchadnezzar reigned. It was the place to which the exiles were taken when the Babylonian Empire was established. And so, it was just a place, and it’s also a city. It’s called Babylon the great because it was a great and powerful city, but what’s interesting is by this time, Babylon has received the judgment of God. As the prophet Isaiah and other prophets, Jeremiah said it would be completely destroyed and not one stone left on another. So, eventually, it was destroyed, though not right away, little by little. By the time Rome ascended, Babylon was nothing. It was a desert. So why the word Babylon?

Well, in 1 Peter 5:13, Peter, who church history and tradition tells us, was in the city of Rome, wrote these words, “She who is in Babylon chosen together with you sends you her greetings and so does my son, Mark.” So, what is he saying there? Rome equals Babylon. So, what does that mean? Babylon, the idea of Babylon, a world dominating, wicked, pagan, luxurious, militarily conquering empire city moves, geographical location moves. It’s moved from Babylon, literal Babylon to the city of Rome. I believe it has not stopped moving. I think once Rome fell, Babylon was moving to another center of power, center of luxury. So, it’s a transferable location of where the luxury, and the power, and the military strength has coalesced. Babylon the great. So, this woman, this world system represents Babylon, the world system.

The mother of prostitutes. Again, the word “prostitution” refers to spiritual adultery, and she’s the mother of, the queen of it all. She’s in charge of it. She’s in charge of that system and of the abominations of the earth. These things are great wickedness in the sight of God. That’s how she’s identified, and in verse 6, as I mentioned, I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, those who bore testimony to Jesus. She hates Christians. She’s against them. She loves to see them suffer and die. So, as we saw earlier in Revelation 16 when the waters were turned to blood, he said, “It’s right for you to do that because they’ve shed the blood of your people.”

Wes

Having seen all this, John is breathless. He is overwhelmed by the vision that he’s seen to this point. At the end of verse 6, we’re told, “When I saw her, I marveled greatly.” Verse 7 comes, and we see the angel respond. How does the angel respond to John, and what does this teach us about the Book of Revelation itself and its deep mysteries?

Andy

Well, first of all, don’t be surprised. You shouldn’t be astonished. You shouldn’t be surprised. So, I think what it is that wickedness or evil is drawn out like some great dark, gross monster from the Black Lagoon, this kind of thing, this swamp creature. It’s hideous, and huge, and big, and evil tentacles everywhere. John is blown away. “I just did not realize how dark and evil the world system is.” The angel says, “Don’t be astonished. Don’t be amazed. You should have known this.” Then, he says, “I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that she rides which has the 7 heads in the 10 horns.” So he’s going to go on from there to describe the beast. It is interesting from verse 7 on. He doesn’t talk much about the woman. It really is the focus is on the beast.

Wes

What does the angel tell John about the beast, and what does it mean that he will come from the abyss?

Andy

Yeah, the beast. We already saw this, the beast in Revelation 13 hearkens back to the four beasts that come up out of the sea in Daniel’s vision. The beast represents successive world empires. The one beast then, in my opinion, represents a consolidated final world empire, and hence the number of kings. It’s bewildering. The 7 heads or 7 hills and 7 kings. Five have come, and one is, and one is yet to come, all that. So, you got 7 kings, and then we got 10 horns. What are they? Well, they’re 10 other kings. So, you got kings, and kings, and kings, lots of kings.

So, I think the way we harmonize all that is that the Antichrist rules the world system which is made up of sub-kings who have come together to give their power to the Antichrist and to submit to him. I would imagine with the ecological disaster that comes on the earth with the trumpet judgments and then with the bowl judgments, but especially with the trumpet judgments that happened earlier perhaps in the final 7-year reign or however many years that is, the ecology of the earth is greatly damaged, though not totally destroyed.

People, rulers come together like in a United Nations kind of thing and say, “Hey, what are we going to do?” The Antichrist who is one man, one ruler by intrigue, Daniel 11, and by smooth talk, and by flattery, and by conniving, and by making backroom deals, little by little by little, ascends until he rules the whole thing, and then he shows his real nature. He becomes an overt tyrant. So, the 7 heads or 7 hills, talk about that in a minute, and 7 kings, and then there’s 10 horns which represent 10 kings. They all come together for one purpose which is to give their power to the Antichrist.

I look on this as a consolidation of the power of government around the world coalescing in one final evil world empire. The beast is the Antichrist’s world empire. So, the beast John is told once was, now is not, and will come up out of the abyss, and go to his destruction. So, it’s very complicated. The abyss was a place of punishment for demons. In Revelation 9, an angel descends and unlocks the abyss, and billowing smoke comes up out of it. So, you get the sense that this is a demonic thing. This is a deep, dark, demonic world empire system.

What it means that the beast once was, now is not, and will come? It could be just there are aspects of the empire which aren’t seen in John’s day. It wasn’t there in John’s day, but it is coming in the future. It’s rather difficult to interpret in great detail, but it’s a sense of different phases. But then, there’s a final version of that beast that comes up that rules the entire world, and it will ultimately go to destruction because Jesus is going to destroy it.

The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast because he once was, now isn’t, and yet to come. So, I think the idea is also hearkening back to the miraculous resurrection of the beast where it seems like he was killed and then comes back to life. So, there’s that kind of language here, and anyone who is not elect will be so blown away and so amazed, so worshipful toward this, they’ll receive the mark of the beast, and they’ll go to hell ultimately. But the elect will not be deceived by any of this.

Wes

Now, why do you think the angel says, “This calls for a mind with wisdom,” and what do the seven hills represent in verse 9?

Andy

All right. So, in other places, Jesus calls for wisdom if anyone has understanding, and he links it to the abomination of desolation. So, as I’ve studied the abomination of desolation, Jesus said, “When you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel” (Matthew 24:15). So, the calling for wisdom, in my opinion, usually involves a deep understanding of scripture coupled with current events. So, when you see this thing that happens that lines up with these many prophecies, that’s when you’ll see it. So, I think it’s that language of abomination of desolation and the Antichrist. So, it calls for wisdom.

Then, the seven heads, we’re told, are seven hills on which the woman sits. Now, if you’ve been living in John’s day under the domination of Rome, there’s no doubt you would think Rome. Seven hills, Rome. All right? So, I think that that’s the place to start. But as I’ve already said, the spirit of Babylon having moved from the original geographical location of Babylon to Rome shows that it can move. We know that since that time, Rome itself has been defeated by various barbarian tribes and sank down to the dust of history. So, Rome is nothing now. I guess a tourist destination, et cetera, but certainly, not a world-dominating empire or power. Not at all.

So, I would say then though the seven hills definitely represent Rome in John’s day, the beast represents… the seven hills represents power, human ego, elevation. If you look at Isaiah 2, God is against every lofty thing, every high tree, every mountain and hill. And his enemy in Isaiah 2 is human pride and arrogance. So, the seven hills represent, ultimately, human exaltation and elevation and ego in the form of an empire. So, this is a beast, and ego, and power. The seven hills represent initially Rome, but ultimately, all human ego and power ruling the earth.

Wes

We’re told that the number seven doesn’t just refer to these hills. In verse 10, we’re told that the number seven represents something else. What do we learn in verse 10 about this number seven?

Andy

As I mentioned, seven kings. Five we’re told have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. I don’t know what that means. And I’m telling you what. If you go through, what, 21 chapters of Revelation, and you don’t at some point, say, “I don’t know,” then, I don’t know about you. I think you’re too confident. It’s a difficult book. I don’t know what it means, they haven’t come yet. I think ultimately, there are going to be an agglomeration of many kings who are lesser than the final great king, Antichrist. Therefore, he is in some wicked, evil parody, a king of kings and lord of lords. He’s ruling over people who give to him their power.

So, we’ve got these seven kings here, and we’re about to talk about 10 horns, and there are 10 more kings. So, I think there’s a sequence of kings. Some interpreters say this is probably five emperors that have… They’ve fallen now, and then there’s one yet to come. You could do all that, but I don’t really know how that helps us in the 21st century. It’s not a certain interpretation anyway. I think in general, the best way here is to say the Antichrist didn’t get world domination all by his lonesome. He did it by politics, he did it by conniving, and he did it by other people who were powerful but who decided to yield to his power. So, these 7 kings here and then the 10 kings and all that represent those lesser kings whose power go together in a conglomeration or in an alliance to give the Antichrist his power.

Wes

Now, another mystery that arises in verse 11 is the identity of this eighth king that’s mentioned. How does the angel describe him in verse 11, and what does he mean in saying he is not?

Andy

Well, it says in verse 11, “The beast who once was and now is, is an eighth king, and he belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.” I just think that’s the Antichrist. In my opinion, 17:11 is the Antichrist. He’s called the beast in other places. In what sense he once was and now is? I think you’ve heard, “Many antichrists have come and now one is coming” (1 John 2:18). So, there’s the spirit of the Antichrist, but there is one yet to come, and he is going to his destruction because Jesus is going to destroy him.

Wes

How does the angel interpret the 10 horns on the beast in verses 12-13?

Andy

Yeah. I’ve said it three or four times, but they are 10 kings who give their power to the beast, and they reign for an hour. So, it’s like at the end of the world, there’s going to be these 10 powerful men who come together to give the Antichrist his power, and they reign along with the beast. They have one purpose. It says clearly in verse 13, to give their power and authority to the beast. So, there it is.

Wes

We talked about verse 14 a little before we got on the podcast as well. What does verse 14 teach us about the kings of the earth who gave their power to the beast, and how does this verse depict the final victory of Christ and his Father?

Andy

Okay. So, the kings together with the Antichrist come together to make war against the Lamb, that’s against Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Well, guess what? They’re going to lose. I love 17:14 because it’s just so beautiful. It just causes me to worship. Wes, you and I were talking about this. It’s like, “Of course, they’re going to lose. He’s going to overcome them because he is the Lord of lords and King of kings. He’s the real deal. He is God incarnate, and he is going to destroy them.”

It’s just Psalm 2. Why do the nations rage, and the kings of the earth take their stand against the Lord and against his anointed? The one enthroned in heaven laughs, and then he destroys them. So, this is not even a contest. He is the omnipotent God. He’s infinitely above the highest heavens, so there is no chance. Actually, it’s a very understated verse, verse 14. They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings. It’s just a beautiful statement.

With him will be all of his followers, so he’s coming on their behalf. I think with him, it’s intentional. I think what happens is the Antichrist with his conglomeration of kings come together for the purpose of destroying Christians. I think, therefore, the sovereign God is using them as bait for that very purpose. He wants them all in one place like all the rotten eggs in one basket. They’re all coming to Armageddon. They’re coming to a specific place to the end of killing the Christians that are left on earth, and Jesus comes back in Revelation 19 to destroy them and protect his people.

Wes

What’s the significance of the interpretation of the waters on which the woman sits that comes in verse 15?

Andy

The waters, we’re told directly, are peoples, multitudes, nations, languages. It’s the world, and so fundamentally, the waters represent the undulating, powerful, chaotic worlds of people, of human beings who are not Christians. They are created in the image of God. They are intelligent, they’re purposeful, powerful, going in thousands of different directions. How God can sovereignly rule over that is just staggering. I was recently in the city of Boston visiting family, and I was just thinking about this. About this person going that way, that person going that way, cars going this way, buses, planes overhead, all human beings going every direction in the city of Boston, and it’s just one city.

I’m like, “God, how do you control all this? You got all of these people created in your image with incredible minds, all of them purposeful, doing things, hardly any of them doing it for your glory. How do you rule this?” So, I look on the waters as the undulating, chaotic powers of humanity, and that lines up with Daniel 7 and Revelation 13. Up out of the chaotic ocean come these beasts. So that represents the peoples and many nations. We also see in the Book of Isaiah, it says, “Oh, the raging of the nations, they rage like the raging of the sea.” So, there’s this sense of chaos… Without any peace, they are not tranquil. They are stormy and destructive.

Wes

Why do the evil leaders turn on the harlot in verse 16, and how do verses 17 and 18 teach us about the sovereignty of God over all these events and serve as an interpretive key for the whole chapter?

Andy

Yeah, 16 is a hard verse. The beast and the 10 horns will hate the prostitute. It’s like, “Well, I thought the prostitute is evil. Oh, she is. Well, I thought the beast is evil. Oh, he is. The 10 horns are evil. They’re all evil.” So, all right. What sense do we make of it? The prostitute then represents the pleasures and allures of this world. I guess what I would say is fundamentally, behind all of it, behind the prostitute, the world, behind the beast, the Antichrist, behind the 10 evil kings and their power is Satan. And Satan doesn’t love any of them. He hates them all. He doesn’t have any favorite people. He hates all people because they’re all created in the image of God. He’s a murderer. He wants to kill them all.

I mean, think of it this way, Nazi Germany invading Soviet Russia. Who is Satan rooting for? He’s not rooting for any of them. He wants them all dead, and they did kill each other. Millions of dead Germans and Russians. Most of them not knowing the Lord. He’s a murderer. It’s just carnage. So, I think fundamentally then, if the prostitute represents the pleasures and allures of this world, Satan doesn’t want to give pleasure to anyone. C.S. Lewis talked about this in Screwtape Letters where Screwtape is talking to Wormwood about how to tempt people. It’s like we don’t want to give pleasure to any human being. We are willing to put up with it for a little while, but little by little by little, we want to wean them off of pleasure so that they are addicted to something they hate.

You think about an addict addicted to heroin or to some other thing. Do they love the drug? No, they hate it. They are addicted to it, and they hate it. So, you get the sense also, I hate to even mention it, but I think about when Amnon raped Tamar. When he was done with her, he hated her. He absolutely hated her. It’s just a strange thing. So, I think fundamentally, they turn on the prostitute because they are anti-pleasure, because they’re demonic, and so they don’t love anything. They turn on pleasure, they turn on luxury, they turn on everything because they are demonic, and they hate every good thing that God could ever give.

So, the beast and the 10 horns turn on the prostitute. They strip her. They destroy her. They eat her flesh. They burn her with fire. Then, in verse 17, it says, “God has put it into their hearts,” which is the beast and the 10 horns, “to accomplish his purpose, to agree by agreeing, to give the beast their power to rule until God’s words are fulfilled.” So, fundamentally, what it says there is God is ruling over everything that happens on earth. Verse 18, “The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” We don’t have to wonder about it. It is the world system, and so fundamentally, God is orchestrating all of this for the praise of his glory.

We were enticed to learn evil. God’s purpose, therefore, instead of destroying that world and making a second world that knew nothing about the first world, he ran with it, ran the present world.

I think of it this way. This is probably one of the most helpful interpretive keys that I’ve ever discerned for the entire Bible in all of history, and it has to do with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We were enticed to learn evil. God’s purpose, therefore, instead of destroying that world and making a second world that knew nothing about the first world, he ran with it, ran the present world. He’s like, “All right. You want to know evil? I’ll show it to you.” So, for all of what we call redemptive history has been a history of evil. This is the culmination of it, and God is orchestrating this to show us what it’s like. It is anti-pleasure. It is violent, bloodthirsty, immoral, corrupt, chaotic. It is evil straight through.

So, when we see this thing running out to its final conclusion with the second coming of Christ and carnage, just slaughter of all of these kings, and their armies, and all that that are there to kill the Christians, we just see in the end, “Oh, okay. That’s what evil looks like. It is evil. I hate it,” and we will be conformed to Christ and spend eternity loving righteousness and hating wickedness. So, ultimately, this whole chaotic, complex story, and it is complex because we’ve been talking on this podcast for a long time. All right? So going through the details of Revelation 17, it is very complex. God is ruling over all of it for his own purposes. What is that? Our salvation, our delight in his glory, and his revelation of what wickedness and evil is really like. God rules over all of it.

Wes

This has been Episode 23 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 24 entitled Babylon Has Fallen where we’ll discuss Revelation 18:1-24. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys Podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

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