Discover who are the 144,000 standing with Jesus the Lamb of God on Mount Zion at the end of the world.
Wes
Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study Podcast. This is Episode 18 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Lamb and His 144,000, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:1-5. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Well, no doubt the Book of Revelation is the hardest book in the Bible to interpret, and this passage itself is very challenging. It’s got some symbolic language representing certain people at a certain moment in history. And we’re going to walk through it and try our best to understand who the 144,000 are who are standing with the Lamb of God, with Jesus on Mount Zion. We’re going to walk through that. I think it’s going to be a fascinating study as we try our best to understand what these verses are teaching.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read verses 1-5 in Revelation 14.
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
Andy, how does this section relate to the previous two chapters, and how might we compare the 144,000 here to the followers of the beast?
Andy
Yeah, so those are very important questions. And so essential to my interpretation of this is taking a sequential understanding of these chapters of this section that Revelation 12 leads to Revelation 13 and that leads to this section in Revelation 14. So, I would see this not as kind of floating free and just representing some aspect of redemptive history but tied into the reign of the Antichrist, the beast from the sea, and of the dragon who dominates him, namely Satan, and of the beast from the earth who is called the false prophet. During that terrible time, the last phase of human history, the last phase of redemptive history, that’s where I nestle this section here. This is where it shows up in the Book of Revelation, and so therefore, I think it’s important for us to see it in light of that era. So, these would be, I think, individuals who are witnesses for Christ and servants of Christ very heroically at a very difficult time to be such. Perhaps, I would say the most difficult time to be an active, ardent, faithful witness and servant to Christ there has ever been in human history.
And the 144,000 I would first want to connect back to Revelation 7 in which the 144,000 are sealed from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. So, you get 12 times 12,000, 12,000 sealed from each tribe there, and there are various interpretations of that as well. But it is possible that these 144,000 are meant to hearken back to that. And they could well therefore be Jewish believers in Christ. The number is definitely symbolic, but that doesn’t mean it’s literal or won’t be actually historical. Just because of something symbolic doesn’t mean it couldn’t actually literally happen. God loves symbolism and does things in an actual physical way that are also symbolic. So, I think it is quite possible that these 144,000 may represent Jewish believers in Christ who are serving Christ in a unique and powerful way during the reign of Antichrist. Now keep in mind that my interpretation of Romans 11 and the whole Jewish problem, why is it that the overwhelming majority of Jews are rejecting Jesus in Romans 9, 10 and 11 is written to answer that question.
It culminates in a climax of redemptive history, namely, all Israel will be saved. And so that is interpreted, I would interpret it as that final generation of Jews will have a massive turning to Christ and believe in him. Tying it into the abomination of desolation teaching that Jesus gives us from the Book of Daniel. It may well be tied to a complete collapse of any hopes they had an old covenant Judaism being re-established with the animal sacrificial system and the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem under the auspices of the Antichrist. But then 2 Thessalonians 2, he takes his seat in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God, utter blasphemy. The Jews realize that it’s over. And at that moment God chooses to send them the power of the Holy Spirit and to turn them from darkness to light into faith in Christ. And they will look on him, Jesus, the one they have pierced and mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.
But they still need evangelists, and these could well be the evangelists that will turn their own people and others besides to faith in Christ. So, I’m nestling it in that sense that these are active witnesses or evangelists, most likely Jewish. Who are courageously standing up post the two witnesses that we’ve talked about in Revelation 11 or maybe at the same time. Maybe even they were brought to faith in Christ through the two witnesses in Revelation 11. And they are now courageously serving Christ. I don’t think it’s best to see the 144,000 as purely symbolic representing all Christians of all time, perfect number and all that because it says they did not defile themselves with women. So, there’s a very male-dominated view here, and that really wouldn’t fit with redeemed both men and women from every tribe, language, people and nation.
It seems to be a specific group of people. But it is a challenging passage because the 144,000 are standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion. Now Mount Zion, it says there in the text could either be physical or it could be, well, I would say it could either be earthly or it could be heavenly. There’s a heavenly Zion, a heavenly Jerusalem, and there’s also an earthly Zion, an earthly Jerusalem. Are they there on earth or are they up in heaven? But I think it’s best to see them taking their stand on behalf of Christ. They’re standing with Christ in that sense on earth, in Jerusalem willing to courageously witness on his behalf. But in any case, that’s my take on the symbolism and the verses. It’s a very challenging passage to interpret.
Wes
One of the things we’ve noted before is John’s referring to Christ as Lamb. What does John see in this vision, and what’s the significance of John continuing to call Christ Lamb throughout the Book of Revelation rather than lion or some other expression?
Andy
for us he’s only ever Lamb. He’s gentle with us. And he was the Lamb whose death takes away our sins
Well, He certainly will behave as a lion when he comes before the armies of heaven in Revelation 19. And he is behaving as a lion really throughout the book with all the judgments that are being poured forth at his command on earth. But he’s called Lamb, Lamb, Lamb, always Lamb because the book, Revelation is written for us. It’s written for his followers. And for us he’s only ever Lamb. He’s gentle with us. And he was the Lamb whose death takes away our sins. So, I love that question and the fact that he is revealed as Lamb. Also, Wes, I don’t think I answered your question before of how the 144,000 are connected to those that received the mark of the beast. And I think the key is at the end in verse 1 it says that they received the mark of or they had the Lamb’s name and the Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Now this may be just symbolic, or it could be a spiritual mark in some degree. But I think we’re going to find out later in this very chapter that if anyone receives the mark of the beast, they’re going to spend eternity in hell. And so, the mark of the beast represents that they belong to Satan. And so therefore, the mark of God and of the Lamb on their forehead represents that they belong to God and to Christ. They are his. He owns them, and they’re precious to him. Also, by the way, they are protected from the judgments that are going to come down just like happened in Ezekiel 9 when the angel was to mark everyone in the city of Jerusalem who mourned over the idolatry that was going on there. It’s a similar marking here for the sake of protection and being exempt from the wrath of God.
Wes
Now this is a multisensory experience for John. In verse 1 it says, “I looked and behold,” and it goes on to give the details that we’ve just walked through. In verse 2 it begins by saying, “I heard.” What did John hear in this vision and what was so noteworthy about the sound?
Andy
Yeah, so he looks, and he sees the Lamb on Mount Zion. So, John seems to be writing from the earthly perspective. If you go literal with that and the Lamb is Jesus, then that is Jesus post second coming right before the eternal state. If you’re a millennial or the millennial kingdom, if you believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Christ on earth taking the stand. Or it could just be that the verse is symbolic, that Jesus is taking a stand amidst his 144,000 by the power of the Spirit. He hasn’t come yet from heaven. The second coming hasn’t happened yet, etc. But it says he looked and he saw, but then he heard, and what does he hear? He hears sound from heaven. So, he, John, is not up in heaven. He’s on the earth, and he hears the sound. And it’s overwhelming. It’s loud.
The sound from heaven is like the roar of rushing waters like a waterfall. If you’ve ever been to a mighty waterfall like the Niagara Falls or something like that, it’s deafening. It’s just incredibly powerful. Or a loud peal of thunder, these are the loudest natural sounds. Other than the volcanic eruption, I don’t think there would be a louder sound on earth than these sounds. Or perhaps the rushing of the wind of a hurricane that would be very, very loud, but that’s what he hears. It’s very loud. The sound is overpowering, but the sound also is melodious and beautiful like that of a harpist playing their harp. So, it’s a beautiful but dominant and loud sound of worship.
Wes
What then is the significance of the song or the new song that the 144,000 sing, and how does it relate perhaps to the song of Moses and of the Lamb in 15:2-4?
Andy
Well, it’s just interesting. There is this sense of singing, and there’s a sense of worship. And I think ultimately, Wes, when all is said and done, the way I understand everything big picture, is that we are created by God to see and to delight in and understand his glory and to worship him for it. So, all the evil and all of the sin and suffering and death, including Christ’s death and all that, is an interruption. And that Christ’s work in redeeming is to bring us to God’s original purpose, sin having been dealt with. But now there’s so much more we can praise God for because that journey has been so incredible. But we were meant to praise him and worship him.
So, the Song of Moses and of the Lamb in Revelation also here in this chapter gives you a sense that we are going to be worshiping God skillfully, musically, beautifully. We’ll be singing as we do now with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. But the adjective here, new, they sang a new song, implies a new kind of music that you could well imagine would be reserved and kept back for the time when at last we are in heaven. And at last, we are celebrating and worshiping God. So, there is that sense that there is some kind of form of beauty that’s waiting for just that right moment, like a lock and a key that fits perfectly. But at any rate, they sang this new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders.
Wes
What’s the significance of that last part that you just mentioned? It tells us that they sang before the throne, before the elders and living creatures. What should we glean from that description?
Andy
Well, this is a heavenly scene. We know in Revelation 4, that’s where we first see the throne of God. Remember there was that doorway standing open to heaven. And John was lifted up in the Spirit and went through the doorway from the Island of Patmos into heaven, saw the throne and someone seated on it. That’s the central reality of the universe, Almighty God enthroned. And then you’ve got the four living creatures, and you’ve got the 24 elders and all that. Well, they’re singing this song before that throne and before the four living creatures and the 24 elders.
So, there’s a sense of heavenly worship going on with these 144,000. So, it’s like you could almost imagine the 144,000 have a very terrifying, difficult, earthly mission to do. But the image here is they’ve completed that mission. They’re in heaven and enjoying the fruits of what that mission has meant. Or you would have to say that they sang the song on earth, but the throne and the elders and the living creatures perceived it and benefited from it and enjoyed it. But I think I prefer to think of it as they themselves are singing it in the heavenly realms.
Wes
Now, it’s also an exclusive song. It says, “No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.” Why do you think this is so?
Andy
Well, we’re going to go on in verse 4 and 5 and find out just how special these 144,000 are. I don’t believe that everyone in heaven will have equal honor or equal glory or equal experiences. I think there will be some reserved for those that served in a specific way. There’ll be honors given to, for example, literal martyrs who died, who were killed for the gospel that others who were not will not receive. There’ll be certain crowns and honors and privileges given based on earthly service. And so, in this case, it seems one of the privileges given is the right to sing this song. You don’t have the right to learn it or to sing it unless you’re one of those 144,000. So, it’s a special honor given to these 144,000.
Wes
Now the word redeemed is used here. What does that word redeemed mean, and how does it relate specifically to the 144,000 but even then, to us as well?
Andy
The ultimate redemption was worked by Jesus Christ’s blood redeeming us from death and hell under the wrath of God.
Right, it’s a very important term, and we learned a lot about it in the old Covenant. It generally has to do with the payment of a price to get an individual out of trouble or difficulty. So, like a kidnapped victim, it would be like a ransom paid to the kidnapper or a slave, a sum of money paid to the owner to emancipate or set the slave free. There’s a lot of redemption that goes on. For example, the firstborn had to be redeemed by a sacrifice, so it’s almost like harkening back to the Passover when the firstborn died. And so, the idea is in order to spare you also from dying, a sacrifice had to be made on your behalf. And so, you’re redeemed from the death you deserve. The ultimate redemption was worked by Jesus Christ’s blood redeeming us from death and hell under the wrath of God. So that’s what the redemption is here, I believe. They’re redeemed by the blood of Christ.
Wes
How does verse 4 describe these 144,000, and what’s the significance of the three descriptions John gives of them?
Andy
Wow, that’s very powerful. Let’s just read them again, verse 4 and 5. “These 144,000 are those who did not defile themselves with women for they kept themselves pure,” so they were sexually pure. We’ll talk about the women verse, I already mentioned it, but we need to say more about it. And then it says, “They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. And they were purchased, redeemed, from among men and offered as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.” And then it says, no lie was found in their mouths, so they were free from lying. James says if anyone is never at fault in what he says, he’s a perfect man. So, these are highly esteemed individuals, and it says they’re blameless. Now that’s the same word that’s used of Job being blameless and upright, a man who feared God and shunned evil or also of elder candidates, etc. It doesn’t mean literally perfect, sinless, but a very high level of righteousness. So, there’s a lot said about them.
Wes
So, let’s take each of those in turn, beginning in verse 4, we’re told that’s, “These who have not defiled themselves with women for they are virgins,” in my translation, or I believe you said sexually pure.
Andy
Kept themselves pure.
Wes
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy
Yeah, they’re virgins. Yeah, it’s a fascinating version. It’s fraught with all kinds of challenges and difficulties. First of all, it’s obviously written very much from a male point of view. I don’t think John would be thinking of those that were women that were free from the sin of lesbianism. So, these are males, these are men. That’s why it makes it hard for me to think that the 144,000 represent all the redeemed because of this one verse. So, they didn’t defile themselves with women. The only way you could defile yourself with a woman is to sin sexually. The implication here is sexual sin. So, it would be either fornication or adultery. They didn’t do that. And they were virgins in your translation, so they probably had literally never been with women. Now, the reason it’s fraught with difficulties is the medieval Catholic Church was very hostile in some senses to marriage I think post-Augustine. And Augustine sinned with the sin of fornication. When he became a convert, a Christian, he basically took a vow of celibacy.
And that was in some ways harmful to the history that followed because there was an esteeming of celibacy to the point where they went so far as to forbid marriage for priests. They required clerical celibacy from all marriage. And forbade marriage, which Paul calls the doctrine of demons. So, marriage is an honorable state. We’re told in Hebrews 13 the marriage bed is pure. And there’s nothing wicked or sinful about a man and a woman who are married in covenant marriage, committed to each other in marriage, having sexual intercourse. That was something God set up. So, you’re not defiling yourself in that sense at all, so we want to set that aside. That’s not what this verse is talking about, they did not defile themselves with women. But I do think the second translation, they kept themselves pure. I think it could be simply that they weren’t married at all, and I think that’s probably the best way to understand it.
They had chosen, as Jesus talked about in Matthew 19:12, to make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of God. And I don’t think they literally went through any kind of surgical procedure or anything like that. I think they just chose to forsake marriage. And in this sense, they definitely fulfilled Paul’s advocacy of singleness in 1 Corinthians 7 where he talks about the very practical side of if you’re single, you can focus entirely on Christ and the gospel and the work of the kingdom. Whereas, if you have a wife and children, your interests will be divided, and you’ll have a lot of practical concerns. Furthermore, Paul says very interestingly there in 1 Corinthians 7:26, he says in light of this present distress, it is best to stay single if you can.
And the present distress in Paul’s day was persecution, imprisonment, beatings, etc. And those were going on in Paul’s life. Well, I would say multiply that by 1000 for the time of the Antichrist. He is literally killing people. Literally killing people who will not receive the mark of the beast or who are openly testifying to Christ. And these folks, they’re set apart by Jesus to be witnesses. They’re set apart to serve him and be willing to die for him. So, they are forsaking marriage, I believe. And they are committing themselves entirely to the work of the kingdom here at the final, final stage of human history. They’re choosing not to be married. And I think we also see how vulnerable a married man would be. A man with a wife, a man with children, if you are arrested and tortured would be extremely vulnerable. He could himself put up with all manner of torture.
If he’s a strong man, a strong believer, he’d be willing to suffer and die for Christ. But imagine his beloved wife being brought in and beaten in front of him or his son or daughters, teenage daughter or something like that. And he could save her by betraying Christ, how tempting a situation that would be. So, these men, these 144,000, have chosen to forsake marriage and to serve Christ. Now, I also believe these 144,000, if in fact they’re Jewish evangelists, would be instrumental along with the two witnesses in winning that final generation of Jews to faith in Christ. And Jews were scattered all over the world, so they would’ve had to go around from place to place serving Christ, following the Lamb wherever he went so that they could preach the gospel to their own people, to the Jews, but also to any Gentiles that would listen.
Wes
Now, we’re also told that it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. What do you learn about them from this description?
Andy
Yeah, so as I just said a moment ago, I think the point is that the Lamb or Jesus is leading them to fulfill his mission. And the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost. It’s the finishing of the Great Commission. And so again, if we’re going to go with that statement in Romans 11, “And so all Israel will be saved,” we also learn from Romans 10, how can they be saved without calling him in the name of the Lord? And how can they call on his name if they’d never heard of him? And so, they are the ones that are going out proclaiming the gospel to the Jews and to any Gentiles who will listen during that era. And the Lamb is leading them in their mission to go preach the gospel.
So, we see that kind of leadership often in the Book of Acts. And we read about it in church history where the Lamb of God through the Spirit of God leads missionaries to specific missions. Like in Acts 8, when Philip was told by the angel of the Lord and by the Spirit of the Lord to go south to the desert road and preach the gospel to the Ethiopian eunuch. So, I look on this as mission strategy. Again, we see this with the vision of the man from Macedonia in Acts 16 where they didn’t know where to go. And the Spirit blocked them in and reigned them in and had them like, “All right, what do we do?” And then they had a vision of the man of Macedonia who said, “Come over and help us.” I think they follow the Lamb wherever he goes is in mission on earth during the reign of Antichrist to win people to Christ.
Wes
Now, the final description tells us, “These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.”
Andy
Yeah. So, this is, again, we’ve already talked about them being redeemed, so they’re genuine believers in Christ. Their sins have been paid for, they’ve been redeemed from hell and from payment for their sins. So, they’re blameless, but they’re not sinless. And so, they needed to be redeemed through faith in Christ so that they would not be condemned for their sins. So, they’re purchased and redeemed. They’re also offered as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. Two senses: first of all, you offer the best, and so they’re the best. I think these could be some of the best human beings that have ever lived, some of the most courageous, the most dedicated, the most passionate for Christ. They’re like the final phase of the followers of Christ, of the church of Jesus Christ, and it’s a beautiful thing to see. And also, it could imply a vast harvest that’s coming as a result of their witness during that final phase. So, they’re the first fruits, and then there’s a bunch of harvests coming after them as well.
Wes
Final description of them, “In their mouth, no lie was found for they are blameless,” it’s just a powerful picture. As you’ve spoken of and as we’ve looked at throughout this chapter, the depth of persecution and suffering that’s being experienced the world over, but specifically for those who align themselves with the Lamb is profound. And so that they would be upright in their speech, that there would be no lie found in their mouths and that they would be marked out as blameless is a profound description of these 144,000 here in this passage.
Andy
Yeah, I want to say a couple of things about this. First of all, the central lie going on on planet earth at that point is the Antichrist and the religion around it. And they’re not in for that at all. They’re not going to lie. They’re not going to believe the lie, as Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians. They’re immune to the false miracles and to all that. They’re not going to, and along with that, they’re not going to lie about themselves and about their allegiance to Christ. It’s like renounce Christ or die. They’d rather die than that. They will not buckle to that. They will not lie about their profession of faith in Christ.
They will give a courageous profession even if they’re killed, and so they’re willing to say that. And then beyond that, just day to day, they were just upright men who spoke the truth. And you think about this, ultimately in the pattern of Jesus, Jesus never spoke anything that was false. But especially at his trial, he gave the good confession. We’re told before Pilate, and also before the high priests, Anas and Caiaphas, “Are you the Christ?” And he said, “I am. In the future, you’ll see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One coming in clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:62). He knew exactly what would happen. He courageously told the truth about himself. These witnesses courageously tell the truth also about him, about Christ.
Wes
Well, Andy, as you mentioned at the outset, there’s a lot for us to take in just these few short verses here. But what final thoughts do you have for us today as we continue our journey through Revelation?
Andy
when we’re all in heaven, keep in mind, whoever is a part of the body of Christ, whatever honors they get we’ll be sharing in them.
Well, these are unique individuals, I think. I don’t think they are just representative of the entire body of followers of Christ. They are some of the greatest that will have ever lived. I don’t even know if they are alive today yet or not. I don’t know where we’re at in redemptive history, but it causes me to be in awe of the different aspects of the body of Christ and of the beauty of that. And when we’re all in heaven, keep in mind, whoever is a part of the body of Christ, whatever honors they get we’ll be sharing in them.
And so, I’ll be glad to give them the honor that they will deserve for their courageous service to Christ. The way I read, unfolding history and my own life and all that, most likely, I will be dead when they are born and do their ministry and be watching from heaven. But they will receive a tremendous heavenly honor and it’ll be incredible. It also is motivational to me to be as faithful as I can and as zealous as I can, and as courageous as I can in the time that I have between now and when I die. So that’s what I take away from this passage.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 18 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 19 entitled The Proclamations of the Three Angels, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:6-13. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Wes
Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study Podcast. This is Episode 18 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Lamb and His 144,000, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:1-5. I’m Wes Treadway, and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Well, no doubt the Book of Revelation is the hardest book in the Bible to interpret, and this passage itself is very challenging. It’s got some symbolic language representing certain people at a certain moment in history. And we’re going to walk through it and try our best to understand who the 144,000 are who are standing with the Lamb of God, with Jesus on Mount Zion. We’re going to walk through that. I think it’s going to be a fascinating study as we try our best to understand what these verses are teaching.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read verses 1-5 in Revelation 14.
Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps, and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
Andy, how does this section relate to the previous two chapters, and how might we compare the 144,000 here to the followers of the beast?
Andy
Yeah, so those are very important questions. And so essential to my interpretation of this is taking a sequential understanding of these chapters of this section that Revelation 12 leads to Revelation 13 and that leads to this section in Revelation 14. So, I would see this not as kind of floating free and just representing some aspect of redemptive history but tied into the reign of the Antichrist, the beast from the sea, and of the dragon who dominates him, namely Satan, and of the beast from the earth who is called the false prophet. During that terrible time, the last phase of human history, the last phase of redemptive history, that’s where I nestle this section here. This is where it shows up in the Book of Revelation, and so therefore, I think it’s important for us to see it in light of that era. So, these would be, I think, individuals who are witnesses for Christ and servants of Christ very heroically at a very difficult time to be such. Perhaps, I would say the most difficult time to be an active, ardent, faithful witness and servant to Christ there has ever been in human history.
And the 144,000 I would first want to connect back to Revelation 7 in which the 144,000 are sealed from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. So, you get 12 times 12,000, 12,000 sealed from each tribe there, and there are various interpretations of that as well. But it is possible that these 144,000 are meant to hearken back to that. And they could well therefore be Jewish believers in Christ. The number is definitely symbolic, but that doesn’t mean it’s literal or won’t be actually historical. Just because of something symbolic doesn’t mean it couldn’t actually literally happen. God loves symbolism and does things in an actual physical way that are also symbolic. So, I think it is quite possible that these 144,000 may represent Jewish believers in Christ who are serving Christ in a unique and powerful way during the reign of Antichrist. Now keep in mind that my interpretation of Romans 11 and the whole Jewish problem, why is it that the overwhelming majority of Jews are rejecting Jesus in Romans 9, 10 and 11 is written to answer that question.
It culminates in a climax of redemptive history, namely, all Israel will be saved. And so that is interpreted, I would interpret it as that final generation of Jews will have a massive turning to Christ and believe in him. Tying it into the abomination of desolation teaching that Jesus gives us from the Book of Daniel. It may well be tied to a complete collapse of any hopes they had an old covenant Judaism being re-established with the animal sacrificial system and the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem under the auspices of the Antichrist. But then 2 Thessalonians 2, he takes his seat in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God, utter blasphemy. The Jews realize that it’s over. And at that moment God chooses to send them the power of the Holy Spirit and to turn them from darkness to light into faith in Christ. And they will look on him, Jesus, the one they have pierced and mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.
But they still need evangelists, and these could well be the evangelists that will turn their own people and others besides to faith in Christ. So, I’m nestling it in that sense that these are active witnesses or evangelists, most likely Jewish. Who are courageously standing up post the two witnesses that we’ve talked about in Revelation 11 or maybe at the same time. Maybe even they were brought to faith in Christ through the two witnesses in Revelation 11. And they are now courageously serving Christ. I don’t think it’s best to see the 144,000 as purely symbolic representing all Christians of all time, perfect number and all that because it says they did not defile themselves with women. So, there’s a very male-dominated view here, and that really wouldn’t fit with redeemed both men and women from every tribe, language, people and nation.
It seems to be a specific group of people. But it is a challenging passage because the 144,000 are standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion. Now Mount Zion, it says there in the text could either be physical or it could be, well, I would say it could either be earthly or it could be heavenly. There’s a heavenly Zion, a heavenly Jerusalem, and there’s also an earthly Zion, an earthly Jerusalem. Are they there on earth or are they up in heaven? But I think it’s best to see them taking their stand on behalf of Christ. They’re standing with Christ in that sense on earth, in Jerusalem willing to courageously witness on his behalf. But in any case, that’s my take on the symbolism and the verses. It’s a very challenging passage to interpret.
Wes
One of the things we’ve noted before is John’s referring to Christ as Lamb. What does John see in this vision, and what’s the significance of John continuing to call Christ Lamb throughout the Book of Revelation rather than lion or some other expression?
Andy
for us he’s only ever Lamb. He’s gentle with us. And he was the Lamb whose death takes away our sins
Well, He certainly will behave as a lion when he comes before the armies of heaven in Revelation 19. And he is behaving as a lion really throughout the book with all the judgments that are being poured forth at his command on earth. But he’s called Lamb, Lamb, Lamb, always Lamb because the book, Revelation is written for us. It’s written for his followers. And for us he’s only ever Lamb. He’s gentle with us. And he was the Lamb whose death takes away our sins. So, I love that question and the fact that he is revealed as Lamb. Also, Wes, I don’t think I answered your question before of how the 144,000 are connected to those that received the mark of the beast. And I think the key is at the end in verse 1 it says that they received the mark of or they had the Lamb’s name and the Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Now this may be just symbolic, or it could be a spiritual mark in some degree. But I think we’re going to find out later in this very chapter that if anyone receives the mark of the beast, they’re going to spend eternity in hell. And so, the mark of the beast represents that they belong to Satan. And so therefore, the mark of God and of the Lamb on their forehead represents that they belong to God and to Christ. They are his. He owns them, and they’re precious to him. Also, by the way, they are protected from the judgments that are going to come down just like happened in Ezekiel 9 when the angel was to mark everyone in the city of Jerusalem who mourned over the idolatry that was going on there. It’s a similar marking here for the sake of protection and being exempt from the wrath of God.
Wes
Now this is a multisensory experience for John. In verse 1 it says, “I looked and behold,” and it goes on to give the details that we’ve just walked through. In verse 2 it begins by saying, “I heard.” What did John hear in this vision and what was so noteworthy about the sound?
Andy
Yeah, so he looks, and he sees the Lamb on Mount Zion. So, John seems to be writing from the earthly perspective. If you go literal with that and the Lamb is Jesus, then that is Jesus post second coming right before the eternal state. If you’re a millennial or the millennial kingdom, if you believe in a literal 1000-year reign of Christ on earth taking the stand. Or it could just be that the verse is symbolic, that Jesus is taking a stand amidst his 144,000 by the power of the Spirit. He hasn’t come yet from heaven. The second coming hasn’t happened yet, etc. But it says he looked and he saw, but then he heard, and what does he hear? He hears sound from heaven. So, he, John, is not up in heaven. He’s on the earth, and he hears the sound. And it’s overwhelming. It’s loud.
The sound from heaven is like the roar of rushing waters like a waterfall. If you’ve ever been to a mighty waterfall like the Niagara Falls or something like that, it’s deafening. It’s just incredibly powerful. Or a loud peal of thunder, these are the loudest natural sounds. Other than the volcanic eruption, I don’t think there would be a louder sound on earth than these sounds. Or perhaps the rushing of the wind of a hurricane that would be very, very loud, but that’s what he hears. It’s very loud. The sound is overpowering, but the sound also is melodious and beautiful like that of a harpist playing their harp. So, it’s a beautiful but dominant and loud sound of worship.
Wes
What then is the significance of the song or the new song that the 144,000 sing, and how does it relate perhaps to the song of Moses and of the Lamb in 15:2-4?
Andy
Well, it’s just interesting. There is this sense of singing, and there’s a sense of worship. And I think ultimately, Wes, when all is said and done, the way I understand everything big picture, is that we are created by God to see and to delight in and understand his glory and to worship him for it. So, all the evil and all of the sin and suffering and death, including Christ’s death and all that, is an interruption. And that Christ’s work in redeeming is to bring us to God’s original purpose, sin having been dealt with. But now there’s so much more we can praise God for because that journey has been so incredible. But we were meant to praise him and worship him.
So, the Song of Moses and of the Lamb in Revelation also here in this chapter gives you a sense that we are going to be worshiping God skillfully, musically, beautifully. We’ll be singing as we do now with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. But the adjective here, new, they sang a new song, implies a new kind of music that you could well imagine would be reserved and kept back for the time when at last we are in heaven. And at last, we are celebrating and worshiping God. So, there is that sense that there is some kind of form of beauty that’s waiting for just that right moment, like a lock and a key that fits perfectly. But at any rate, they sang this new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders.
Wes
What’s the significance of that last part that you just mentioned? It tells us that they sang before the throne, before the elders and living creatures. What should we glean from that description?
Andy
Well, this is a heavenly scene. We know in Revelation 4, that’s where we first see the throne of God. Remember there was that doorway standing open to heaven. And John was lifted up in the Spirit and went through the doorway from the Island of Patmos into heaven, saw the throne and someone seated on it. That’s the central reality of the universe, Almighty God enthroned. And then you’ve got the four living creatures, and you’ve got the 24 elders and all that. Well, they’re singing this song before that throne and before the four living creatures and the 24 elders.
So, there’s a sense of heavenly worship going on with these 144,000. So, it’s like you could almost imagine the 144,000 have a very terrifying, difficult, earthly mission to do. But the image here is they’ve completed that mission. They’re in heaven and enjoying the fruits of what that mission has meant. Or you would have to say that they sang the song on earth, but the throne and the elders and the living creatures perceived it and benefited from it and enjoyed it. But I think I prefer to think of it as they themselves are singing it in the heavenly realms.
Wes
Now, it’s also an exclusive song. It says, “No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.” Why do you think this is so?
Andy
Well, we’re going to go on in verse 4 and 5 and find out just how special these 144,000 are. I don’t believe that everyone in heaven will have equal honor or equal glory or equal experiences. I think there will be some reserved for those that served in a specific way. There’ll be honors given to, for example, literal martyrs who died, who were killed for the gospel that others who were not will not receive. There’ll be certain crowns and honors and privileges given based on earthly service. And so, in this case, it seems one of the privileges given is the right to sing this song. You don’t have the right to learn it or to sing it unless you’re one of those 144,000. So, it’s a special honor given to these 144,000.
Wes
Now the word redeemed is used here. What does that word redeemed mean, and how does it relate specifically to the 144,000 but even then, to us as well?
Andy
The ultimate redemption was worked by Jesus Christ’s blood redeeming us from death and hell under the wrath of God.
Right, it’s a very important term, and we learned a lot about it in the old Covenant. It generally has to do with the payment of a price to get an individual out of trouble or difficulty. So, like a kidnapped victim, it would be like a ransom paid to the kidnapper or a slave, a sum of money paid to the owner to emancipate or set the slave free. There’s a lot of redemption that goes on. For example, the firstborn had to be redeemed by a sacrifice, so it’s almost like harkening back to the Passover when the firstborn died. And so, the idea is in order to spare you also from dying, a sacrifice had to be made on your behalf. And so, you’re redeemed from the death you deserve. The ultimate redemption was worked by Jesus Christ’s blood redeeming us from death and hell under the wrath of God. So that’s what the redemption is here, I believe. They’re redeemed by the blood of Christ.
Wes
How does verse 4 describe these 144,000, and what’s the significance of the three descriptions John gives of them?
Andy
Wow, that’s very powerful. Let’s just read them again, verse 4 and 5. “These 144,000 are those who did not defile themselves with women for they kept themselves pure,” so they were sexually pure. We’ll talk about the women verse, I already mentioned it, but we need to say more about it. And then it says, “They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. And they were purchased, redeemed, from among men and offered as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.” And then it says, no lie was found in their mouths, so they were free from lying. James says if anyone is never at fault in what he says, he’s a perfect man. So, these are highly esteemed individuals, and it says they’re blameless. Now that’s the same word that’s used of Job being blameless and upright, a man who feared God and shunned evil or also of elder candidates, etc. It doesn’t mean literally perfect, sinless, but a very high level of righteousness. So, there’s a lot said about them.
Wes
So, let’s take each of those in turn, beginning in verse 4, we’re told that’s, “These who have not defiled themselves with women for they are virgins,” in my translation, or I believe you said sexually pure.
Andy
Kept themselves pure.
Wes
Yeah. Yeah.
Andy
Yeah, they’re virgins. Yeah, it’s a fascinating version. It’s fraught with all kinds of challenges and difficulties. First of all, it’s obviously written very much from a male point of view. I don’t think John would be thinking of those that were women that were free from the sin of lesbianism. So, these are males, these are men. That’s why it makes it hard for me to think that the 144,000 represent all the redeemed because of this one verse. So, they didn’t defile themselves with women. The only way you could defile yourself with a woman is to sin sexually. The implication here is sexual sin. So, it would be either fornication or adultery. They didn’t do that. And they were virgins in your translation, so they probably had literally never been with women. Now, the reason it’s fraught with difficulties is the medieval Catholic Church was very hostile in some senses to marriage I think post-Augustine. And Augustine sinned with the sin of fornication. When he became a convert, a Christian, he basically took a vow of celibacy.
And that was in some ways harmful to the history that followed because there was an esteeming of celibacy to the point where they went so far as to forbid marriage for priests. They required clerical celibacy from all marriage. And forbade marriage, which Paul calls the doctrine of demons. So, marriage is an honorable state. We’re told in Hebrews 13 the marriage bed is pure. And there’s nothing wicked or sinful about a man and a woman who are married in covenant marriage, committed to each other in marriage, having sexual intercourse. That was something God set up. So, you’re not defiling yourself in that sense at all, so we want to set that aside. That’s not what this verse is talking about, they did not defile themselves with women. But I do think the second translation, they kept themselves pure. I think it could be simply that they weren’t married at all, and I think that’s probably the best way to understand it.
They had chosen, as Jesus talked about in Matthew 19:12, to make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of God. And I don’t think they literally went through any kind of surgical procedure or anything like that. I think they just chose to forsake marriage. And in this sense, they definitely fulfilled Paul’s advocacy of singleness in 1 Corinthians 7 where he talks about the very practical side of if you’re single, you can focus entirely on Christ and the gospel and the work of the kingdom. Whereas, if you have a wife and children, your interests will be divided, and you’ll have a lot of practical concerns. Furthermore, Paul says very interestingly there in 1 Corinthians 7:26, he says in light of this present distress, it is best to stay single if you can.
And the present distress in Paul’s day was persecution, imprisonment, beatings, etc. And those were going on in Paul’s life. Well, I would say multiply that by 1000 for the time of the Antichrist. He is literally killing people. Literally killing people who will not receive the mark of the beast or who are openly testifying to Christ. And these folks, they’re set apart by Jesus to be witnesses. They’re set apart to serve him and be willing to die for him. So, they are forsaking marriage, I believe. And they are committing themselves entirely to the work of the kingdom here at the final, final stage of human history. They’re choosing not to be married. And I think we also see how vulnerable a married man would be. A man with a wife, a man with children, if you are arrested and tortured would be extremely vulnerable. He could himself put up with all manner of torture.
If he’s a strong man, a strong believer, he’d be willing to suffer and die for Christ. But imagine his beloved wife being brought in and beaten in front of him or his son or daughters, teenage daughter or something like that. And he could save her by betraying Christ, how tempting a situation that would be. So, these men, these 144,000, have chosen to forsake marriage and to serve Christ. Now, I also believe these 144,000, if in fact they’re Jewish evangelists, would be instrumental along with the two witnesses in winning that final generation of Jews to faith in Christ. And Jews were scattered all over the world, so they would’ve had to go around from place to place serving Christ, following the Lamb wherever he went so that they could preach the gospel to their own people, to the Jews, but also to any Gentiles that would listen.
Wes
Now, we’re also told that it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. What do you learn about them from this description?
Andy
Yeah, so as I just said a moment ago, I think the point is that the Lamb or Jesus is leading them to fulfill his mission. And the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost. It’s the finishing of the Great Commission. And so again, if we’re going to go with that statement in Romans 11, “And so all Israel will be saved,” we also learn from Romans 10, how can they be saved without calling him in the name of the Lord? And how can they call on his name if they’d never heard of him? And so, they are the ones that are going out proclaiming the gospel to the Jews and to any Gentiles who will listen during that era. And the Lamb is leading them in their mission to go preach the gospel.
So, we see that kind of leadership often in the Book of Acts. And we read about it in church history where the Lamb of God through the Spirit of God leads missionaries to specific missions. Like in Acts 8, when Philip was told by the angel of the Lord and by the Spirit of the Lord to go south to the desert road and preach the gospel to the Ethiopian eunuch. So, I look on this as mission strategy. Again, we see this with the vision of the man from Macedonia in Acts 16 where they didn’t know where to go. And the Spirit blocked them in and reigned them in and had them like, “All right, what do we do?” And then they had a vision of the man of Macedonia who said, “Come over and help us.” I think they follow the Lamb wherever he goes is in mission on earth during the reign of Antichrist to win people to Christ.
Wes
Now, the final description tells us, “These have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.”
Andy
Yeah. So, this is, again, we’ve already talked about them being redeemed, so they’re genuine believers in Christ. Their sins have been paid for, they’ve been redeemed from hell and from payment for their sins. So, they’re blameless, but they’re not sinless. And so, they needed to be redeemed through faith in Christ so that they would not be condemned for their sins. So, they’re purchased and redeemed. They’re also offered as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. Two senses: first of all, you offer the best, and so they’re the best. I think these could be some of the best human beings that have ever lived, some of the most courageous, the most dedicated, the most passionate for Christ. They’re like the final phase of the followers of Christ, of the church of Jesus Christ, and it’s a beautiful thing to see. And also, it could imply a vast harvest that’s coming as a result of their witness during that final phase. So, they’re the first fruits, and then there’s a bunch of harvests coming after them as well.
Wes
Final description of them, “In their mouth, no lie was found for they are blameless,” it’s just a powerful picture. As you’ve spoken of and as we’ve looked at throughout this chapter, the depth of persecution and suffering that’s being experienced the world over, but specifically for those who align themselves with the Lamb is profound. And so that they would be upright in their speech, that there would be no lie found in their mouths and that they would be marked out as blameless is a profound description of these 144,000 here in this passage.
Andy
Yeah, I want to say a couple of things about this. First of all, the central lie going on on planet earth at that point is the Antichrist and the religion around it. And they’re not in for that at all. They’re not going to lie. They’re not going to believe the lie, as Paul talks about in 2 Thessalonians. They’re immune to the false miracles and to all that. They’re not going to, and along with that, they’re not going to lie about themselves and about their allegiance to Christ. It’s like renounce Christ or die. They’d rather die than that. They will not buckle to that. They will not lie about their profession of faith in Christ.
They will give a courageous profession even if they’re killed, and so they’re willing to say that. And then beyond that, just day to day, they were just upright men who spoke the truth. And you think about this, ultimately in the pattern of Jesus, Jesus never spoke anything that was false. But especially at his trial, he gave the good confession. We’re told before Pilate, and also before the high priests, Anas and Caiaphas, “Are you the Christ?” And he said, “I am. In the future, you’ll see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One coming in clouds of heaven” (Mark 14:62). He knew exactly what would happen. He courageously told the truth about himself. These witnesses courageously tell the truth also about him, about Christ.
Wes
Well, Andy, as you mentioned at the outset, there’s a lot for us to take in just these few short verses here. But what final thoughts do you have for us today as we continue our journey through Revelation?
Andy
when we’re all in heaven, keep in mind, whoever is a part of the body of Christ, whatever honors they get we’ll be sharing in them.
Well, these are unique individuals, I think. I don’t think they are just representative of the entire body of followers of Christ. They are some of the greatest that will have ever lived. I don’t even know if they are alive today yet or not. I don’t know where we’re at in redemptive history, but it causes me to be in awe of the different aspects of the body of Christ and of the beauty of that. And when we’re all in heaven, keep in mind, whoever is a part of the body of Christ, whatever honors they get we’ll be sharing in them.
And so, I’ll be glad to give them the honor that they will deserve for their courageous service to Christ. The way I read, unfolding history and my own life and all that, most likely, I will be dead when they are born and do their ministry and be watching from heaven. But they will receive a tremendous heavenly honor and it’ll be incredible. It also is motivational to me to be as faithful as I can and as zealous as I can, and as courageous as I can in the time that I have between now and when I die. So that’s what I take away from this passage.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 18 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 19 entitled The Proclamations of the Three Angels, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:6-13. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
