The bold gospel witness of God’s two prophets incites seething rage and hostility. After seeing them killed, resurrected, and taken up, some people repent and believe.
Wes
This is Episode 13 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast entitled The Two Witnesses where we’ll discuss Revelation 11:1-14. I’m Wes Treadway and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Well, this is one of these exciting, thrilling, and I would say mysterious chapters in the Book of Revelation, and it shows how difficult the book can be to interpret. But we have depicted in this chapter two witnesses that will stand before the Antichrist, I believe, at the end of the world, and testify boldly until they are killed and then miraculously resurrected and brought up to heaven. And so, it’s just an incredible chapter. And we’re going to have a chance to walk through and talk about its symbolic aspects, but also as I believe, it’s literal prophetic aspects as we look ahead to the end of the world.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 11:1-14.
Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.
And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days, some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets have been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.
But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. 7,000 people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed; behold the third woe is soon to come.
What’s the significance of the temple and its measurement, and why does John not report his findings in verse 1 of this chapter we’re looking at?
Andy
Well, with that first question we get immediately into the difficulty of interpreting this chapter. What is the temple? By the time that John is actually writing the Book of Revelation, the actual literal physical temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed for decades. That happened in AD 70, and John is writing toward the end of the century. So, what is this temple? And some people believe that there’s a literal physical temple that the Antichrist will rebuild at the end of the world called the tribulation temple. Others who take a more spiritualized approach to interpreting generally the Book of Revelation and specifically this chapter look on it symbolically. And they say that the temple is a symbolic spiritual temple, something like that. I take a literal approach, but I think there’s also a heavenly temple at the end of the chapter. In Revelation 11:19 it says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was open and within his temple was seen the ark of the covenant,” et cetera.
Well, we know that the tabernacle under Moses and then the temple under David and then Solomon were both built by a heavenly pattern that Moses and then David were shown. And then they wrote down the designs for the tabernacle, which was a tent, and then the temple, which was a building. And that it was built after a pattern of something they saw in heaven. So, I think 11:19 is definitely a heavenly temple because it says it, it’s a temple in heaven, but there must be an earthly aspect because it says that the court of the temple is trampled on by the Gentiles for 42 months. And the rest of this just seems very earthly and physical. There are things going on, on earth and persecutions and sufferings and all that.
there is a true heavenly temple, and then there’s the false temple that will be rebuilt under Antichrist at the end of the age,
So, I take it to mean that there is a true heavenly temple, and then there’s the false temple that will be rebuilt under Antichrist at the end of the age, which is in no way pleasing to God. Because remember the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and then eventually, providentially, God destroyed the physical temple. So, I don’t think he had any desire that another temple, physical temple be rebuilt on earth. So that’s how I take it. There is a literal physical temple that the two witnesses are ministering in, but the true temple is up in heaven.
Wes
And why does John not report his findings?
Andy
Well, John was told to measure the temple, and so he’s supposed to measure it. And by the way, this reminds me very much of Ezekiel 40 to 48 where an angelic being is given a measuring rod and we get a very accurate record of all the cubits, it’s supersaturated in the word cubits. And so, you get all this measurement going on in Ezekiel 40-48. John is involved in the vision. And he’s given a read to measure, and he is told to measure the temple, but the actual measurements are not reported. And he’s also told to count the worshipers. And by the way, I think the measuring and the counting shows God’s meticulous, and I would say scientific nature. That God is a counter, he’s a scientist, he’s a measurer, he is the architect. The very hairs of our head are all numbered. He knows all of these details.
And I think the measurement also shows God’s limitation. It’s a limit to the walls, it’s a limit to the size and all of that. But the actual numbers are not important, or else the Holy Spirit would’ve made certain that we knew what they were. So, we don’t know what they are, but that was what John was told to do.
Wes
What exclusion was John given, what is the holy city, and what’s significance of the 42 months we see in verse 2?
Andy
Well, he is told to exclude the outer court and told not to measure it. And he says it’s been given over to the Gentiles, and that they will trample on the holy city for 42 months. So, this reminds me very much of Jesus’ statement of the times of the Gentiles, and the woe he spoke over the city of Jerusalem. And the consummation of Jerusalem’s agonies will be under the rulership of the Antichrist. And so, the fundamental thing is he’s told not to measure it because it’s going to be defiled, and it’s going to be destroyed. And I think it’s just a time of terrible persecution. And it says in this verse they’ll trample on the holy city for 42 months. Now that’s a number that we’re going to bump into again at the end of the passage today, but that’s that three-and-a-half-year period. That’s for how long the Gentiles will be trampling on or destroying the city. And the consummation of that trampling is the reign of Antichrist.
Wes
Now, broadly speaking, before we walk through some of the details, what is the ministry of the witnesses to whom we’re introduced in verse 3, and what does God empower them to do?
Andy
Well, in verse 3 he says, “I’ll give power to my two witnesses.” So, the word witness is key, and it reminds me very much of Acts 1:8 which says, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you and you’ll be my witnesses.” And so, the idea of witnesses is those that are going to testify to Christ, to testify to the truth of the gospel. And many of us Christians who are convicted that we need to be involved in evangelism and missions, we call it witnessing. And we are called to be witnesses. And so, we step up into that. And we testify to what we believe, what we have spiritually seen. Not, we’re not eyewitnesses, but we’ve spiritually seen these truths in the pages of scripture. In the first generation though there were literal eyewitnesses who were given a task of testifying to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now these witnesses have a special role. And they are, it’s a prophetic role. And their job is to speak into, proclaim the word of God to a world that is writhing in agony and in great difficulty at this late stage in the Book of Revelation where you’ve had the seven seals and the seven trumpets. And we’re between the sixth and seventh trumpets. So, you’ve got all of this carnage and wreckage and ecological disaster and death as we’ve talked about with the seven trumpets. And so, they’re there to be witnesses. And the reason is, I believe, that all of that ecological disaster stuff has to be interpreted. The meaning for it has to be given. And these witnesses are there to say, effectively, “Hear ye, hear ye residents of earth. The reason this is happening to you is because of your wickedness and your idolatry and your sexual immorality and all of your sins. Repent therefore of your sins and turn to Christ and believe in him before it’s too late.” So, it’s that kind of a proclamation. They’re witnesses to the truth of the gospel.
Wes
What’s the significance of their being called olive trees and lampstands? And what does it mean that they stand before the Lord of the earth?
Andy
Yeah, it’s interesting. I want to note here also these 42 months in verse 2, and then 1,260 days in verse 3, and then you’ve got time times and half a time. And you get this 42 month or 1,260-day period months’ worth 30 days back then in the measurement. So, three and a half years would be 1,260 days. So, I’ll give power to them, and they’re going to prophesy for that long. And there’s clothing sackcloth, so it’s a very somber, serious proclamation. And they’re called two olive trees and two lampstands, which hearkens, let me tell you … I think we have seen this, but people can make a careful study of how many Old Testament allusions there are. How many times the Book of Revelation alludes to an Old Testament passage. And here it’s pretty clearly alluding to Zechariah 4. And so, the idea is of Christians are the light of the world.
We are called on to be light and to shine in a dark place. So, they’re lampstands and they’re olive trees. And so, there’s this sense of life and light coming from their words, but it’s a somber message because they’re clothed in sackcloth. Also, it says at the end of verse 4 that they stand before the lord of the earth. And that I believe is Antichrist. That is the beast that comes up from the abyss that’s going to rise up and overpower and kill them. But for a long time, they stand boldly before him and testify boldly concerning the great wickedness of the lord of the earth. And so, I think the lord of the earth is the Antichrist. He rules over all the earth. We’re going to meet him in Revelation 13, but it says that these two witnesses stand boldly before the lord of the earth and testify to his great wickedness.
Wes
What does verse 5 then teach us about their power and their protection from God?
Andy
Well, some have said before that the servant of God is indestructible until he finishes the Lord’s work. And so, I think just that means that we are protected by providence, we’re protected by the hand of God. And so, God, Almighty God does protect them. We must imagine that the overwhelming majority of the people that will hear their witness will not repent of their sins. They will actually hate these messengers, deeply hate them. Martin Luther once said, you should always preach in such a way that when you are done, people will either hate you or hate their sins. And that’s a bold kind of preaching, and Martin Luther could pull it off, but these witnesses are even bolder than that way. And I could imagine within hours of them beginning this kind of proclamation ministry, there’ll be people who wanted to kill them. Immediately kill them. And they would have done so except that God protected them.
So, he definitely had their back, keeps them safe. Very much like Job and Satan’s complaint, you have put a hedge of protection around him and all he has. And so, they can’t get at them. But specifically in verse 5, it says if anyone tries to harm them, fire comes out from their mouths and devours their enemies. So, one of the key things here as we’re doing hermeneutics is some people say, look, this is so symbolic. These two witnesses represent the church in its persecuted testimony to Jesus. The problem I have with that is it doesn’t line up with the actual details of the chapter. The fact is that if any fire comes out on witnesses in church history, it burns them. I think about Polycarp of Smyrna was burned at the stake. John Huss was burned at the stake. William Tyndale was burned at the stake. They would’ve gotten Wycliffe, but he died before their time, so they exhumed him later and burned his ashes or something like that. That’s what the persecutors do is burn the messengers.
But in this case, it’s the other way around. Anyone tries to attack them, they get burned. And so, it doesn’t really line up with what has actually happened in church history. So, they have tremendous power, and this very much reminds me also of Elijah. And Elijah was sitting on a mountain. And the wicked king of Israel sent a captain with 50 men and he said, “Man of God, come down, the king commands you to come down.” And he says, “If I’m a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you.” Boom, does. Second captain comes with his 50, boom, same thing happens. Third guy comes with a little more humility. And God says to Elijah to go to him. And he does. And then we also have the account of James and John when the Samaritan village would not receive Jesus because he was heading on to Jerusalem and then in a typical Jew Samaritan thing, they’re like, fine, then we’re not going to let you come in.
And then James and John were so offended they said, Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to consume them? But Jesus wasn’t there to do that. But now here at the end, that’s exactly what’s going on. And so, fire comes out of their mouths. I don’t know if it literal, they’re fire-breathing dragons or they say, may fire come down from heaven. But it comes at their word similar to what James says and also is true of Elijah. God has said that there will not be rain or dew except at the word of my mouth. So, it’d be like, I don’t know if they’re fire-breathing people or its more God says, or they say, may God send fire or send fire down, and it happens. So, I look at it that way. I don’t look on this as symbolic.
Wes
Either way, we have a sense that this is God’s protection of them because it says at the end of that verse that if anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. So, this is the sure outcome for anyone who would oppose these witnesses. What might verse 6 remind us of? And what does that same verse teach about the power of faithful witnesses in a hostile world?
Andy
Because of the similarity to Elijah, and then also this verse 6 reminds us of the days of Moses and the plagues on Egypt. So, what verse 6 says is these men have the power to shut up the skies so that it will not rain, that’s Elijah, during the time they’re prophesying. They also have the power to turn water into blood, Moses did that, and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. That also is Moses. Some people think these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. And we know that also that those are the two individuals that came and appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration that Peter, James and John saw. So maybe, but it doesn’t say that. Just says this is what they do, and they have the power to shut up the sky and they do all this. So, they are bringing some pretty clear destruction.
the price for being faithful witnesses is going to get higher and higher as we near the end of the world.
And I would imagine given that a third of the water on earth had been fouled already, to shut up the sky so that it won’t rain and to turn some of the remaining clean water into blood, this is a pretty severe plague. So, they mean business. This is a battle for souls here. I think we need to take a look at just the role of these two witnesses being faithful in such a hostile world. Now everything’s ramped up greatly. If this is a literal physical fulfillment that will come, it’s going to be incredible and going to be terrifying. But we also know that we have a role to play in this present age. And as we witness, we’re frequently going to meet opposition. Some of our brothers and sisters around the world meet opposition from fanatics in false religions or nationalistic fanatics, governmental fanatics, or just governmental agents that don’t want that kind of preaching going on in their cities. And so, we have to be willing to stand firm. And I think the price for being faithful witnesses is going to get higher and higher as we near the end of the world.
Wes
What does verse 7 teach us about the power of the beast and who or what is the beast here?
Andy
Okay, so the beast that comes up from the abyss, I believe is the Antichrist. The beast language is going to be clear in Revelation 13. The difference is he comes up out of the sea there. But the abyss we’ve already seen in Revelation 9 with the sixth trumpet, I believe, is it the sixth trumpet? Seventh trumpet, fifth trumpet. And we’ve seen also in Revelation 9 with the fifth trumpet and the abyss has opened up and the demons come up out of it. So, I think the connection with the abyss here is not so much that the Antichrist comes himself up out of the abyss, but he’s dominated by demonic or satanic power. He has direct satanic and demonic power. And he’s given power to rise up and attack these two witnesses. And he is enabled when they have finished their work, and they can’t do anything until they have finished their testimony.
But when the time comes, God allows the Antichrist to kill the two witnesses. And so, if we look in Daniel 7, it says that the Antichrist figure there, the horn on the fourth beast has the power to wage war against the saints and to defeat them. And the saints are given over into the hands of the Antichrist for a time, times and half a time, or for three and a half years. So, this lines up with the deep complexities of the Book of Daniel. So, the Antichrist does have the power in the end to triumph. In the end, the only one that’s going to be able to overcome and to destroy the Antichrist is Jesus Christ at the second coming, which he will do.
Wes
All right, how should we understand verse 8? We’ve just noted that the beast is enabled to kill the witnesses. How do we understand what’s going on in verse 8 here?
Andy
Well, in verse 8 it says, their bodies will lie in the streets of Jerusalem. Basically, it’s given a symbolic nature saying, look, it’s called Sodom or Egypt. These are ancient enemies of God. And the idea is that Jerusalem’s a wicked city. It’s called a holy city, but it’s also greatly wicked. And it’s the city that as Jesus says, that kills the prophets and destroys those sent to her. How often I have longed to gather your children together, et cetera. That’s what Jerusalem does. And so here are two more witnesses that are slaughtered in the streets of that great city, and they just leave their bodies there. It says in verse 9, for three and a half days, men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. So, it’s just gross.
We also can imagine the technologies that enable the entire world to see two dead bodies in the streets of Jerusalem. So that’s definitely the worldwide digital age, which enables people to see that. So, it’s a terrifying thing. You look at it and this, I believe it’s physical, literal, but it’s also got a figurative or symbolic aspect to it where it says where also their Lord was crucified. And that’s an exegetical clue that we’re talking definitely about the city of Jerusalem.
Wes
It is amazing the depth of the wickedness of humanity that’s on display in verse 9, but it gets even worse in verse 10. What does verse 10 teach us about the hearts of unregenerate people and why would they respond this way to the death of these two witnesses?
Andy
Well, as I said earlier about Luther, people are going to either hate the witnesses or hate their sins, and most of them are going to hate the witnesses. And they already have seen some bold individuals get burned to death who tried to lay a hand on them. And they learned not to do that. But they’re like, what can we do? We don’t want to listen to this. But they couldn’t not listen. And so, it’s just very, very terrifying for them. But also, it enraged them. And there’s that sense of rage that comes up, and I think it’s just pride. People are being told the truth, repent or you’ll be destroyed. You are sinners. These judgments have come because of your sins. Repent. People get angry about it. It’s all pride. And so, they’re filled with rage. And they also are sickly gloating over them. They’re like, look, finally, they’re dead. And they’re celebrating by sending each other gifts because they had tormented the people that lived on the earth.
So, I think the fire that consumed their enemies and the plagues and the shutting up of water and all that, but they’re sick of these two by the time this has come. I want to say another thing about what I imagine would be, it’s not in the text here, but it’s in other passages. What the success of these witnesses will be. We can look at the people who hate them and oppose them, but we can’t imagine that they’re not effective. And we do read in Romans 11 that at the end of the age, right before the end of the world, God is going to bring about a remarkable revival among the Jewish nation. And he will take away the hardness of heart and the wickedness that has prevented the Jews from seeing in Jesus Christ their Messiah, and all Israel will be saved.
It would not at all surprise me, given how this is centered in the city of Jerusalem and connected it seems with the temple and with the sacrifices that this focus initially really is on the Jewish people. And that the Jews will turn in faith and believe in Jesus. And to me, that’s very exciting.
Wes
What does verse 11 teach about the power of God, and what was the effect of the resurrection of the two witnesses on the celebrating unbelieving world?
Andy
Well, in God’s hands is the power to kill and to bring to life. You can’t do anything. And God said that. I have the power to kill, and I have the power to bring to life. And God has the power to raise anyone from the dead. And so, at the end of three and a half days, I don’t know why that length of time, but it reminds me of three and a half years, but at the end of the three and a half days, they suddenly spring to life. The breath of God comes in them, and they come alive. And at that moment, all of the gloating and the mockery and the giving of gifts is over, and they’re terrified. It’s like, all right, are we going back to the plagues and the fire and all that? But they’re filled with terror when that happens. And it just shows me the power of God to raise the dead. He can do anything.
Wes
What’s the significance of the command that follows on the heels of this to come up here and the fact that the enemies of God see the witnesses and are watching them as they’re both resurrected and as they ascend?
Andy
Well, first of all, this should remind us of a lot of things. It can definitely remind us of Elijah. Now, he went to heaven in a chariot of fire, chariot, horses of fire that descended and picked him up and brought him up to heaven. Then of course we’ve got Jesus’s ascent to heaven in Acts 1 where he is outside on the Mount of Olives and ascends and goes higher and higher just of his own power, it seems. There are no angels helping him. It just goes up. And it also reminds me of Revelation 4 where John himself is told, come up here and I’ll show you what must take place after that. To me, the important thing is up here, up here is heaven. It’s the heavenly realms, and these two are going straight to heaven after they finish their work. And so, they are exalted, vindicated, I would say, and celebrated. And it’s a tremendous way for them to go up into the heavenly realms. So, everyone watches them. So, they spring to life. Everyone’s filled with terror and then they ascend to heaven. And everyone I’m sure is filled with awe.
Wes
Yeah, that language of vindication requires an audience. So, we’ve talked before about even God’s justice being vindicated and that requiring an audience. So here that people are watching this happen, they’re able to comprehend or at least see that something supernatural, something incredible has happened in front of them. After the ascension of the two witnesses, what do we learn from the events that take place in the city in verse 13?
Andy
Well after they ascend, there’s a severe earthquake in the city, and a tenth of the city collapsed. So, it’s terrifying, and 7,000 people died. And so, there’s death and judgment happening here. The Book of Revelation is about the wrath of God and slaughter. So, it’s very tragic and terrifying as this happened, 7,000 people killed, and everyone else that survived was terrified. And it says they gave glory to God, which I think is a significant statement for the earlier statement I made, that many would be saved as a result of the two witnesses’ ministry. And so, this could be a hint when it says, gave glory to God is that there’s something is changing in their hearts. And that they’re looking at the career of these two witnesses and are listening to their message.
Wes
How does the account end? And what final thoughts do you have for us on this passage?
Andy
It ends in verse 14 with an allusion back to the end of Revelation 8, where an eagle is flying mid-heaven. And cries out, woe, woe, woe, to the inhabitants of the earth warning, three more woes. And two of the woes have happened now with the six trumpets having been blasted. And the seventh trumpet is about to sound, and that’s the third woe that’s coming soon. So final word I would just say is this is an amazing chapter. It’s really incredible. The motivation to me as I read it is to be faithful to witness in a time much easier to witness. We are able to go out and talk to fellow citizens even if they don’t want to hear it. This level of hostility is not going to be there. We have an opportunity now to win some people. And also, just be in awe of God and his power and the complexity of scripture. I’m always amazed at both the simplicity and the complexity of the Bible. So, all of those things are in my mind.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 13 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast, and we want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 14 entitled The Seventh Trumpet, where we’ll discuss Revelation 11:15-19. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
Wes
This is Episode 13 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast entitled The Two Witnesses where we’ll discuss Revelation 11:1-14. I’m Wes Treadway and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?
Andy
Well, this is one of these exciting, thrilling, and I would say mysterious chapters in the Book of Revelation, and it shows how difficult the book can be to interpret. But we have depicted in this chapter two witnesses that will stand before the Antichrist, I believe, at the end of the world, and testify boldly until they are killed and then miraculously resurrected and brought up to heaven. And so, it’s just an incredible chapter. And we’re going to have a chance to walk through and talk about its symbolic aspects, but also as I believe, it’s literal prophetic aspects as we look ahead to the end of the world.
Wes
Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 11:1-14.
Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.
And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days, some from the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets have been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.
But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. 7,000 people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe has passed; behold the third woe is soon to come.
What’s the significance of the temple and its measurement, and why does John not report his findings in verse 1 of this chapter we’re looking at?
Andy
Well, with that first question we get immediately into the difficulty of interpreting this chapter. What is the temple? By the time that John is actually writing the Book of Revelation, the actual literal physical temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed for decades. That happened in AD 70, and John is writing toward the end of the century. So, what is this temple? And some people believe that there’s a literal physical temple that the Antichrist will rebuild at the end of the world called the tribulation temple. Others who take a more spiritualized approach to interpreting generally the Book of Revelation and specifically this chapter look on it symbolically. And they say that the temple is a symbolic spiritual temple, something like that. I take a literal approach, but I think there’s also a heavenly temple at the end of the chapter. In Revelation 11:19 it says, “Then God’s temple in heaven was open and within his temple was seen the ark of the covenant,” et cetera.
Well, we know that the tabernacle under Moses and then the temple under David and then Solomon were both built by a heavenly pattern that Moses and then David were shown. And then they wrote down the designs for the tabernacle, which was a tent, and then the temple, which was a building. And that it was built after a pattern of something they saw in heaven. So, I think 11:19 is definitely a heavenly temple because it says it, it’s a temple in heaven, but there must be an earthly aspect because it says that the court of the temple is trampled on by the Gentiles for 42 months. And the rest of this just seems very earthly and physical. There are things going on, on earth and persecutions and sufferings and all that.
there is a true heavenly temple, and then there’s the false temple that will be rebuilt under Antichrist at the end of the age,
So, I take it to mean that there is a true heavenly temple, and then there’s the false temple that will be rebuilt under Antichrist at the end of the age, which is in no way pleasing to God. Because remember the curtain in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and then eventually, providentially, God destroyed the physical temple. So, I don’t think he had any desire that another temple, physical temple be rebuilt on earth. So that’s how I take it. There is a literal physical temple that the two witnesses are ministering in, but the true temple is up in heaven.
Wes
And why does John not report his findings?
Andy
Well, John was told to measure the temple, and so he’s supposed to measure it. And by the way, this reminds me very much of Ezekiel 40 to 48 where an angelic being is given a measuring rod and we get a very accurate record of all the cubits, it’s supersaturated in the word cubits. And so, you get all this measurement going on in Ezekiel 40-48. John is involved in the vision. And he’s given a read to measure, and he is told to measure the temple, but the actual measurements are not reported. And he’s also told to count the worshipers. And by the way, I think the measuring and the counting shows God’s meticulous, and I would say scientific nature. That God is a counter, he’s a scientist, he’s a measurer, he is the architect. The very hairs of our head are all numbered. He knows all of these details.
And I think the measurement also shows God’s limitation. It’s a limit to the walls, it’s a limit to the size and all of that. But the actual numbers are not important, or else the Holy Spirit would’ve made certain that we knew what they were. So, we don’t know what they are, but that was what John was told to do.
Wes
What exclusion was John given, what is the holy city, and what’s significance of the 42 months we see in verse 2?
Andy
Well, he is told to exclude the outer court and told not to measure it. And he says it’s been given over to the Gentiles, and that they will trample on the holy city for 42 months. So, this reminds me very much of Jesus’ statement of the times of the Gentiles, and the woe he spoke over the city of Jerusalem. And the consummation of Jerusalem’s agonies will be under the rulership of the Antichrist. And so, the fundamental thing is he’s told not to measure it because it’s going to be defiled, and it’s going to be destroyed. And I think it’s just a time of terrible persecution. And it says in this verse they’ll trample on the holy city for 42 months. Now that’s a number that we’re going to bump into again at the end of the passage today, but that’s that three-and-a-half-year period. That’s for how long the Gentiles will be trampling on or destroying the city. And the consummation of that trampling is the reign of Antichrist.
Wes
Now, broadly speaking, before we walk through some of the details, what is the ministry of the witnesses to whom we’re introduced in verse 3, and what does God empower them to do?
Andy
Well, in verse 3 he says, “I’ll give power to my two witnesses.” So, the word witness is key, and it reminds me very much of Acts 1:8 which says, “You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you and you’ll be my witnesses.” And so, the idea of witnesses is those that are going to testify to Christ, to testify to the truth of the gospel. And many of us Christians who are convicted that we need to be involved in evangelism and missions, we call it witnessing. And we are called to be witnesses. And so, we step up into that. And we testify to what we believe, what we have spiritually seen. Not, we’re not eyewitnesses, but we’ve spiritually seen these truths in the pages of scripture. In the first generation though there were literal eyewitnesses who were given a task of testifying to the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now these witnesses have a special role. And they are, it’s a prophetic role. And their job is to speak into, proclaim the word of God to a world that is writhing in agony and in great difficulty at this late stage in the Book of Revelation where you’ve had the seven seals and the seven trumpets. And we’re between the sixth and seventh trumpets. So, you’ve got all of this carnage and wreckage and ecological disaster and death as we’ve talked about with the seven trumpets. And so, they’re there to be witnesses. And the reason is, I believe, that all of that ecological disaster stuff has to be interpreted. The meaning for it has to be given. And these witnesses are there to say, effectively, “Hear ye, hear ye residents of earth. The reason this is happening to you is because of your wickedness and your idolatry and your sexual immorality and all of your sins. Repent therefore of your sins and turn to Christ and believe in him before it’s too late.” So, it’s that kind of a proclamation. They’re witnesses to the truth of the gospel.
Wes
What’s the significance of their being called olive trees and lampstands? And what does it mean that they stand before the Lord of the earth?
Andy
Yeah, it’s interesting. I want to note here also these 42 months in verse 2, and then 1,260 days in verse 3, and then you’ve got time times and half a time. And you get this 42 month or 1,260-day period months’ worth 30 days back then in the measurement. So, three and a half years would be 1,260 days. So, I’ll give power to them, and they’re going to prophesy for that long. And there’s clothing sackcloth, so it’s a very somber, serious proclamation. And they’re called two olive trees and two lampstands, which hearkens, let me tell you … I think we have seen this, but people can make a careful study of how many Old Testament allusions there are. How many times the Book of Revelation alludes to an Old Testament passage. And here it’s pretty clearly alluding to Zechariah 4. And so, the idea is of Christians are the light of the world.
We are called on to be light and to shine in a dark place. So, they’re lampstands and they’re olive trees. And so, there’s this sense of life and light coming from their words, but it’s a somber message because they’re clothed in sackcloth. Also, it says at the end of verse 4 that they stand before the lord of the earth. And that I believe is Antichrist. That is the beast that comes up from the abyss that’s going to rise up and overpower and kill them. But for a long time, they stand boldly before him and testify boldly concerning the great wickedness of the lord of the earth. And so, I think the lord of the earth is the Antichrist. He rules over all the earth. We’re going to meet him in Revelation 13, but it says that these two witnesses stand boldly before the lord of the earth and testify to his great wickedness.
Wes
What does verse 5 then teach us about their power and their protection from God?
Andy
Well, some have said before that the servant of God is indestructible until he finishes the Lord’s work. And so, I think just that means that we are protected by providence, we’re protected by the hand of God. And so, God, Almighty God does protect them. We must imagine that the overwhelming majority of the people that will hear their witness will not repent of their sins. They will actually hate these messengers, deeply hate them. Martin Luther once said, you should always preach in such a way that when you are done, people will either hate you or hate their sins. And that’s a bold kind of preaching, and Martin Luther could pull it off, but these witnesses are even bolder than that way. And I could imagine within hours of them beginning this kind of proclamation ministry, there’ll be people who wanted to kill them. Immediately kill them. And they would have done so except that God protected them.
So, he definitely had their back, keeps them safe. Very much like Job and Satan’s complaint, you have put a hedge of protection around him and all he has. And so, they can’t get at them. But specifically in verse 5, it says if anyone tries to harm them, fire comes out from their mouths and devours their enemies. So, one of the key things here as we’re doing hermeneutics is some people say, look, this is so symbolic. These two witnesses represent the church in its persecuted testimony to Jesus. The problem I have with that is it doesn’t line up with the actual details of the chapter. The fact is that if any fire comes out on witnesses in church history, it burns them. I think about Polycarp of Smyrna was burned at the stake. John Huss was burned at the stake. William Tyndale was burned at the stake. They would’ve gotten Wycliffe, but he died before their time, so they exhumed him later and burned his ashes or something like that. That’s what the persecutors do is burn the messengers.
But in this case, it’s the other way around. Anyone tries to attack them, they get burned. And so, it doesn’t really line up with what has actually happened in church history. So, they have tremendous power, and this very much reminds me also of Elijah. And Elijah was sitting on a mountain. And the wicked king of Israel sent a captain with 50 men and he said, “Man of God, come down, the king commands you to come down.” And he says, “If I’m a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you.” Boom, does. Second captain comes with his 50, boom, same thing happens. Third guy comes with a little more humility. And God says to Elijah to go to him. And he does. And then we also have the account of James and John when the Samaritan village would not receive Jesus because he was heading on to Jerusalem and then in a typical Jew Samaritan thing, they’re like, fine, then we’re not going to let you come in.
And then James and John were so offended they said, Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to consume them? But Jesus wasn’t there to do that. But now here at the end, that’s exactly what’s going on. And so, fire comes out of their mouths. I don’t know if it literal, they’re fire-breathing dragons or they say, may fire come down from heaven. But it comes at their word similar to what James says and also is true of Elijah. God has said that there will not be rain or dew except at the word of my mouth. So, it’d be like, I don’t know if they’re fire-breathing people or its more God says, or they say, may God send fire or send fire down, and it happens. So, I look at it that way. I don’t look on this as symbolic.
Wes
Either way, we have a sense that this is God’s protection of them because it says at the end of that verse that if anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. So, this is the sure outcome for anyone who would oppose these witnesses. What might verse 6 remind us of? And what does that same verse teach about the power of faithful witnesses in a hostile world?
Andy
Because of the similarity to Elijah, and then also this verse 6 reminds us of the days of Moses and the plagues on Egypt. So, what verse 6 says is these men have the power to shut up the skies so that it will not rain, that’s Elijah, during the time they’re prophesying. They also have the power to turn water into blood, Moses did that, and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want. That also is Moses. Some people think these two witnesses are Moses and Elijah. And we know that also that those are the two individuals that came and appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration that Peter, James and John saw. So maybe, but it doesn’t say that. Just says this is what they do, and they have the power to shut up the sky and they do all this. So, they are bringing some pretty clear destruction.
the price for being faithful witnesses is going to get higher and higher as we near the end of the world.
And I would imagine given that a third of the water on earth had been fouled already, to shut up the sky so that it won’t rain and to turn some of the remaining clean water into blood, this is a pretty severe plague. So, they mean business. This is a battle for souls here. I think we need to take a look at just the role of these two witnesses being faithful in such a hostile world. Now everything’s ramped up greatly. If this is a literal physical fulfillment that will come, it’s going to be incredible and going to be terrifying. But we also know that we have a role to play in this present age. And as we witness, we’re frequently going to meet opposition. Some of our brothers and sisters around the world meet opposition from fanatics in false religions or nationalistic fanatics, governmental fanatics, or just governmental agents that don’t want that kind of preaching going on in their cities. And so, we have to be willing to stand firm. And I think the price for being faithful witnesses is going to get higher and higher as we near the end of the world.
Wes
What does verse 7 teach us about the power of the beast and who or what is the beast here?
Andy
Okay, so the beast that comes up from the abyss, I believe is the Antichrist. The beast language is going to be clear in Revelation 13. The difference is he comes up out of the sea there. But the abyss we’ve already seen in Revelation 9 with the sixth trumpet, I believe, is it the sixth trumpet? Seventh trumpet, fifth trumpet. And we’ve seen also in Revelation 9 with the fifth trumpet and the abyss has opened up and the demons come up out of it. So, I think the connection with the abyss here is not so much that the Antichrist comes himself up out of the abyss, but he’s dominated by demonic or satanic power. He has direct satanic and demonic power. And he’s given power to rise up and attack these two witnesses. And he is enabled when they have finished their work, and they can’t do anything until they have finished their testimony.
But when the time comes, God allows the Antichrist to kill the two witnesses. And so, if we look in Daniel 7, it says that the Antichrist figure there, the horn on the fourth beast has the power to wage war against the saints and to defeat them. And the saints are given over into the hands of the Antichrist for a time, times and half a time, or for three and a half years. So, this lines up with the deep complexities of the Book of Daniel. So, the Antichrist does have the power in the end to triumph. In the end, the only one that’s going to be able to overcome and to destroy the Antichrist is Jesus Christ at the second coming, which he will do.
Wes
All right, how should we understand verse 8? We’ve just noted that the beast is enabled to kill the witnesses. How do we understand what’s going on in verse 8 here?
Andy
Well, in verse 8 it says, their bodies will lie in the streets of Jerusalem. Basically, it’s given a symbolic nature saying, look, it’s called Sodom or Egypt. These are ancient enemies of God. And the idea is that Jerusalem’s a wicked city. It’s called a holy city, but it’s also greatly wicked. And it’s the city that as Jesus says, that kills the prophets and destroys those sent to her. How often I have longed to gather your children together, et cetera. That’s what Jerusalem does. And so here are two more witnesses that are slaughtered in the streets of that great city, and they just leave their bodies there. It says in verse 9, for three and a half days, men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. So, it’s just gross.
We also can imagine the technologies that enable the entire world to see two dead bodies in the streets of Jerusalem. So that’s definitely the worldwide digital age, which enables people to see that. So, it’s a terrifying thing. You look at it and this, I believe it’s physical, literal, but it’s also got a figurative or symbolic aspect to it where it says where also their Lord was crucified. And that’s an exegetical clue that we’re talking definitely about the city of Jerusalem.
Wes
It is amazing the depth of the wickedness of humanity that’s on display in verse 9, but it gets even worse in verse 10. What does verse 10 teach us about the hearts of unregenerate people and why would they respond this way to the death of these two witnesses?
Andy
Well, as I said earlier about Luther, people are going to either hate the witnesses or hate their sins, and most of them are going to hate the witnesses. And they already have seen some bold individuals get burned to death who tried to lay a hand on them. And they learned not to do that. But they’re like, what can we do? We don’t want to listen to this. But they couldn’t not listen. And so, it’s just very, very terrifying for them. But also, it enraged them. And there’s that sense of rage that comes up, and I think it’s just pride. People are being told the truth, repent or you’ll be destroyed. You are sinners. These judgments have come because of your sins. Repent. People get angry about it. It’s all pride. And so, they’re filled with rage. And they also are sickly gloating over them. They’re like, look, finally, they’re dead. And they’re celebrating by sending each other gifts because they had tormented the people that lived on the earth.
So, I think the fire that consumed their enemies and the plagues and the shutting up of water and all that, but they’re sick of these two by the time this has come. I want to say another thing about what I imagine would be, it’s not in the text here, but it’s in other passages. What the success of these witnesses will be. We can look at the people who hate them and oppose them, but we can’t imagine that they’re not effective. And we do read in Romans 11 that at the end of the age, right before the end of the world, God is going to bring about a remarkable revival among the Jewish nation. And he will take away the hardness of heart and the wickedness that has prevented the Jews from seeing in Jesus Christ their Messiah, and all Israel will be saved.
It would not at all surprise me, given how this is centered in the city of Jerusalem and connected it seems with the temple and with the sacrifices that this focus initially really is on the Jewish people. And that the Jews will turn in faith and believe in Jesus. And to me, that’s very exciting.
Wes
What does verse 11 teach about the power of God, and what was the effect of the resurrection of the two witnesses on the celebrating unbelieving world?
Andy
Well, in God’s hands is the power to kill and to bring to life. You can’t do anything. And God said that. I have the power to kill, and I have the power to bring to life. And God has the power to raise anyone from the dead. And so, at the end of three and a half days, I don’t know why that length of time, but it reminds me of three and a half years, but at the end of the three and a half days, they suddenly spring to life. The breath of God comes in them, and they come alive. And at that moment, all of the gloating and the mockery and the giving of gifts is over, and they’re terrified. It’s like, all right, are we going back to the plagues and the fire and all that? But they’re filled with terror when that happens. And it just shows me the power of God to raise the dead. He can do anything.
Wes
What’s the significance of the command that follows on the heels of this to come up here and the fact that the enemies of God see the witnesses and are watching them as they’re both resurrected and as they ascend?
Andy
Well, first of all, this should remind us of a lot of things. It can definitely remind us of Elijah. Now, he went to heaven in a chariot of fire, chariot, horses of fire that descended and picked him up and brought him up to heaven. Then of course we’ve got Jesus’s ascent to heaven in Acts 1 where he is outside on the Mount of Olives and ascends and goes higher and higher just of his own power, it seems. There are no angels helping him. It just goes up. And it also reminds me of Revelation 4 where John himself is told, come up here and I’ll show you what must take place after that. To me, the important thing is up here, up here is heaven. It’s the heavenly realms, and these two are going straight to heaven after they finish their work. And so, they are exalted, vindicated, I would say, and celebrated. And it’s a tremendous way for them to go up into the heavenly realms. So, everyone watches them. So, they spring to life. Everyone’s filled with terror and then they ascend to heaven. And everyone I’m sure is filled with awe.
Wes
Yeah, that language of vindication requires an audience. So, we’ve talked before about even God’s justice being vindicated and that requiring an audience. So here that people are watching this happen, they’re able to comprehend or at least see that something supernatural, something incredible has happened in front of them. After the ascension of the two witnesses, what do we learn from the events that take place in the city in verse 13?
Andy
Well after they ascend, there’s a severe earthquake in the city, and a tenth of the city collapsed. So, it’s terrifying, and 7,000 people died. And so, there’s death and judgment happening here. The Book of Revelation is about the wrath of God and slaughter. So, it’s very tragic and terrifying as this happened, 7,000 people killed, and everyone else that survived was terrified. And it says they gave glory to God, which I think is a significant statement for the earlier statement I made, that many would be saved as a result of the two witnesses’ ministry. And so, this could be a hint when it says, gave glory to God is that there’s something is changing in their hearts. And that they’re looking at the career of these two witnesses and are listening to their message.
Wes
How does the account end? And what final thoughts do you have for us on this passage?
Andy
It ends in verse 14 with an allusion back to the end of Revelation 8, where an eagle is flying mid-heaven. And cries out, woe, woe, woe, to the inhabitants of the earth warning, three more woes. And two of the woes have happened now with the six trumpets having been blasted. And the seventh trumpet is about to sound, and that’s the third woe that’s coming soon. So final word I would just say is this is an amazing chapter. It’s really incredible. The motivation to me as I read it is to be faithful to witness in a time much easier to witness. We are able to go out and talk to fellow citizens even if they don’t want to hear it. This level of hostility is not going to be there. We have an opportunity now to win some people. And also, just be in awe of God and his power and the complexity of scripture. I’m always amazed at both the simplicity and the complexity of the Bible. So, all of those things are in my mind.
Wes
Well, this has been Episode 13 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast, and we want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 14 entitled The Seventh Trumpet, where we’ll discuss Revelation 11:15-19. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.
