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Revelation Episode 19 – The Proclamations of the Three Angels

October 09, 2024

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Revelation Episode 19 – The Proclamations of the Three Angels

God’s three angels give final inducements to salvation: the eternal gospel, a prediction of Babylon’s fall, and the warning about eternal conscious torment in hell.

Wes

This is episode 19 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Proclamations of the Three Angels, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:6-13. I’m Wes Treadway and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?

Andy

Well, we’re going to see three angels that are given by God a message to proclaim to the whole earth. It’s very unusual. Angels, the word angel does mean messenger, but one of the angels is given the eternal gospel to proclaim worldwide. And though that ministry is usually given to humans, here, an angel does it. But then the next two are predicting judgment that is coming. The judgment coming on Babylon, the world system, and then the warning to any that receive the mark of the beast, that they’ll suffer eternal conscious torment in hell. So today as we look at especially what was said by the third angel, we have the chance to look briefly and perhaps, I think needfully at one of the most difficult doctrines in the Bible. And that is the doctrine of hell as a place of eternal conscious torment.

Wes

Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 14:6-13 as we begin.

Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” 

Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.” 

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” 

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

What message does the first angel bear and what’s the significance of the fact that God entrusted this mission to an angel? To whom does the angel preach this gospel?

Andy

Well, in verses 6 and 7, Revelation 14, the angel is flying in midair or mid-heaven, and he’s given what’s called the eternal gospel. And that gospel he is given to proclaim to those who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, language, and people. And so, he calls this out powerfully, that people should fear God and glorify him because judgment is coming and has come. And then he goes to natural theology. Worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water, etc. So that’s what he’s given. It’s interesting and noteworthy for a couple of reasons. First of all, what’s said is that he has given the eternal gospel. So, there is only one gospel, there’s not many gospels. Galatians makes this very plain. There is that one gospel that is given through Jesus Christ of the incarnation, the life, the death, the atoning death in blood on the cross by Jesus Christ and his bodily resurrection from the dead and repentance and faith in his name, bringing forgiveness of sins. That is the one gospel.

And Paul makes it very clear in Galatians 1:8, “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach another gospel, let him be eternally condemned.” Ironic that he would say that in light of the passage we’re looking at now. But there are false angels. There are demons that were fallen angels, and they could preach a false gospel, etc. But the fact is this angel is given the eternal gospel, the one gospel. So, there is only one gospel, but it’s called here the eternal gospel, meaning it was crafted in the mind of God before time began as 2 Timothy 1 says. God made this gospel, this good news message up in his own mind before creating heaven and earth. The triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit came up with this idea and this way of saving sinners.

The gospel is then entrusted to messengers, and in this case it’s an angel. What is it that makes that unusual? Well, we don’t have any example of an angel in any other place in the New Testament preaching the gospel in its totality. We do have angels that announce aspects of the life of Jesus, such as his birth to the shepherds outside Bethlehem and his resurrection to the women who came to complete Jesus’ burial process. But they’re not given the complete gospel message. They’re not entrusted with the message of God, man, Christ, response, the full gospel message, except this one is given the gospel to proclaim. And he proclaims it to everyone on earth.

Wes

Now in verse 7, we see the angel proclaiming with a loud voice, and we get the contents of that proclamation. How would you characterize the angel’s message and what does the first angel’s proclamation teach us about evangelism, missions, and worship?

Andy

Well, what I learned from this is that fear or negative inducement is a valid reason to come to Christ. Fear God and give him glory because the hour of his judgment has come. Judgment Day is coming. Flee to Christ. Like John the Baptist said, “Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7)? We should be warned and flee to the only refuge there is. And that’s a totally valid reason for salvation. Imagine fearing the flood in Noah’s day, coming and running and getting on the ark. I would call that wise. All right, so what I get out of this is that it is a beneficial thing to warn, actually an essential thing to warn people of the judgment to come and of the wrath to come. And this passage that we’re looking at today, especially what the third angel says, is a very good thing to be terrified of. It’s a very good inducement for us.

So, I would say a holistic set of inducements to come into Christ would be negative and positive. Negatively to flee hell, to flee the wrath to come, the judgment of God that’s coming on the earth for wickedness and sins. Positively to realize that heaven is a place of delight and glory, a world of love, a place you will not want to miss. As a matter of fact, I’ve said before that hell is so horrible, so infinitely terrible for all eternity, eternal conscious torment, that just to not be sent there and to have some completely neutral ongoing existence but not be in hell as you deserve would be like a heaven.

Conversely, heaven is so good and so amazing and so rich in all of its blessings. Even if there were no hell, to miss out and have some kind of neutral experience, but you’re not included in the blessedness of those who are there would be like a hell. We therefore get either an eternal double curse of not being in heaven and being in hell or an eternal double blessing of not being in hell and being in heaven. So, these are weighty things that we’re thinking about today.

Wes

What does this then teach us about worship toward the end of verse 7?

Andy

We should worship God because of his creation and his power, worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and the springs of water. So, I think of course, recently I’ve been writing a book on suffering based on Job. And when God comes to deal with Job and his misery and his sorrow and his suffering, he comes down in a whirlwind and then goes through natural theology. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? And he goes through all the inanimate aspects of creation, which is the earth itself, the seas, oceans, rivers, the clouds, the weather, all of that. And then the stars, the beings up in the cosmos, sun, moon, and stars, etc. And then he goes to ten creatures, animals of various types, etc. The sum total of all of that is look at the incredible power and wisdom and love of God in creation.

And so, this angel here is saying, worship him who made all these things. Look at the stars and consider them. Count them if you can, God said to Abraham, so shall your offspring be. The stars are amazing. God made them. You look at the sun and you can’t look at it long, you can’t look at it for more than half a second, but it’s powerful and bright and amazing. Look at the beauty of the moon, etc. Those are the celestial beings. And then you look at all of the sea. If you ever go to the coast and you see, like after a big storm and the waves are crashing in and you maybe even feel the mist on your face and you hear the power of the waves crashing and you think, God controls it. I could go on and on. You look at all these creatures and you think, worship God who made them.

Wes

So that’s the first angel in verses 6-7. What’s the message of the second angel and what does Babylon the Great represent here in verse 8?

Andy

Well, the second angel comes and says, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.” Now this is a precursor of Revelation 17 and 18, which God willing we’ll work through in great detail. But that describes the fall of Babylon. Here the angel is saying it’s a done deal even though it hasn’t happened yet in the way we’re reading the book of Revelation. It does say it’s past tense, but we know that frequently prophecies are given with past tense language. For example, the clearest to me is Isaiah 53, which talks about the death of Jesus in the past tense, even though it was proclaimed by Isaiah seven centuries before he was born. And so, it’s as good as done, put it that way. Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great.

Now what is Babylon the Great? Babylon the Great is presented as a whore, and it’s presented as this enticing world system. It’s the ancient enemies of the soul, the world, the flesh, and the devil. It’s the world, and it’s the world system with all of its idols and with all of its allurements and all of its enticements and its passions and its lusts and its concerns. So that’s it. Now fallen means is going to come under the judgment of God. We’re going to a world in which there is no Babylon the Great. We’re going to a world of creation which the angel just celebrates. It’s going to be beautiful creation, but we won’t idolize the creation. We won’t worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator. But Babylon is all about worshiping the creature and not the Creator. And that system is going to fall, and it made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.

So, the idea of adultery there is really spiritual, although there is certainly physical sexual sin that’s involved in it. But fundamentally we were made to love God. And in fact, to be married to God. And then when we turn away from God in discontent and turn to creatures, turn to idols and embrace them and love them as we should be loving God, he looks on that as adultery. And the Babylonian system is enticing. It’s intoxicating, and it allures people into or entices people into sins of wickedness. So, Babylon the Great made people drunk with basically, idolatries.

Wes

Now this image of drinking is going to show up again as we get to the message of the third angel, this proclamation and warning against worshiping the beast and its image. For a second time, that image of drinking is used. What does it mean to drink from the cup of God’s wrath? And why is this image of drinking wine used here in verse 10 as we are introduced to the third angel in verse 9?

Andy

Well, the third angel that’s again flying (I would imagine in mid-heaven like the first one was), is giving another warning. And so, the second angel gives a warning. Now the third one. If anyone worships the beast in his image and receives his mark on his forehead or on the hand. All right. So obviously we’re in the middle of the Book of Revelation. We didn’t do any context work or pre-work. You’d have to go back and listen to the earlier podcasts, but we know what’s going on. The beast is the Antichrist, the beast from the sea, so to speak. It’s that one-world ruler ruling a massive demonic or even satanic empire. And he forces the inhabitants to receive his mark on the forehead or on the hand in order to buy or sell, which means basically in order to be part of society. You want to be part of our world; you have to have this.

And so, if you choose to receive the mark, then it says he too will drink of the wine of God’s fury. So, the image of drinking is a way prophetic image that Isaiah, Jeremiah, others used, Habakkuk used it. The cup of wine that you drink to the bottom. And it makes you drunk and crazy, mad with what you drink. And so, it’s frequently used as an image of judgment, but it comes with the understanding of just drinking wine. And so, you drink it from a goblet. And if you drink too much, you get drunk, you become crazy, it starts to affect your behavior. So here the idea is drinking the wine of God’s fury is pure judgment. And the idea is you’re going to drink it as it says, poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. So, this is the full complete experience of the wrath of God, and it’s poured down your throat.

If you choose to receive the mark of the beast, you’ll spend eternity in hell.

You can imagine not something just affecting your skin, but it’s into your guts, it’s into your intestines, it’s within you. It’s a complete and total experience of the wrath of God. And who receives it? Those that receive the mark of the beast and his image, etc. So, what this tells us is at that time, at that point, both Satan/the Antichrist and God are standing in front of you. And you’re at a crossroads, and you have to choose. And this warning makes it very plain. If you choose to receive the mark of the beast, you’ll spend eternity in hell. So, we should understand about the mark of the beast. It’s not something that can be slipped on you or some microchip that got put in your skin while you were asleep. And now you’ve got it and there was nothing you could do, like it’s some kind of midnight ninja attack or something like that on your soul. Nothing of the kind.

It’s a conscious choice you’re making to turn away from God and from Jesus Christ, to save your own comfortable life in this world. And fit into the overtly demonic and wicked system that Satan has set up through the Antichrist. And you’re embracing that, and saying, I’m going to choose that for the sake of my comforts and for the sake of my eating and drinking and et cetera. That’s a conscious choice you would make at that point, and you’d spend eternity in hell for doing it. So, it’s a terrible warning here. And this passage says a great deal about the nature of hell, which I’m sure we’ll talk about at this point.

Wes

You mentioned the significance of the words full strength or without mixture. What do those words teach us about the nature of hell?

Andy

Well, people back then would dilute wine. They’d mix it with a little bit of water or with some fruit juice or something like that, and the alcohol content would go down. And you would have to drink a lot of it to get drunk. Now this is the full-on thing. This is full straight wrath. God doesn’t hold back anything. And it’s hard for me, Wes, even at this point to think about that. I’ve said before that hell and the wrath of God as displayed in hell is God’s omniscience and his omnipotence focused like a laser on your eternal destruction. He’s thinking about you, to bring curse on you in a way that you will hate for all eternity. He’s not missing. He is doing what is necessary to show you his passion about sin and about what sin has done to his universe. And so, it’s really quite terrifying. It’s meant to be. When we read these words, we’re supposed to be afraid. The angel said, “Fear God and believe, because judgment is coming.”

And so out of fear we flee the wrath to come. Well, there’s nothing held back. He’s full-on destroying people for all eternity. This is why people can’t accept it. So many witty philosophical writers and others and scientists and atheists just look at this and say, how could anyone even believe such a terrible doctrine? But this is what we believe, eternal, conscious torment. And sadly, even some supposedly evangelical preachers have turned away from eternal conscious torment to accept annihilationism because it’s neater and cleaner. But it’s no threat at all. If you think your average wicked person is being threatened with non-existence, it’s the very thing they often want. When they commit suicide, they want non-existence. God isn’t going to give them what they want. They’re going out of the frying pan into the fire, and the fire is his wrath. And so, this is full strength. And they will be, it says, tormented for all eternity.

Wes

And it says they’ll be tormented with fire and sulfur specifically in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. How should we understand this latter half of verse 10?

Andy

Well, the burning or fiery sulfur, the word sulfur is interesting. It’s just in the Bible, and it’s also connected with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I don’t know why in particular, but there it is. And so, there’s a stench involved. It’s a terrible smell, but the real terror is fire. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be on fire forever, but this is obviously a precursor of the latter verses that discuss the lake of fire. So, swimming in fire like molten lava is on fire. And you think about that, I think the idea is it’s a metaphor, but we should always realize that the reality is far greater than the metaphor. And so that’s the idea of the person is tormented with burning sulfur. So, we need to get away from any minimization of hell as just the absence of blessing or the absence of being with God, the absence.

It is all that and that’s sad enough, but it’s the presence of burning sulfur. It’s the presence of torment. So, it’s not a neutral experience, it’s wrath. And so, we look at that, and then it says, “In the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.” This is a very significant statement, and I want to add, I believe in Isaiah 66:24, they’re also tormented in the presence of the redeemed. So, and it makes sense. Even though the redeemed aren’t mentioned here, God isn’t hiding anything from his children in heaven. And so, what this shows me is that the Lord is not ashamed of what’s going on. As the German citizens often were ashamed of what they knew was happening at Auschwitz or that was in Poland. But there were concentration camps in Germany, and the citizens knew what was going on, and they were ashamed. When the Allies came in, they knew that that was wrong, and they were ashamed of it.

God isn’t at all ashamed of hell. There’s nothing shameful for God to do this. The shame is on those who are in the place of eternal conscious torment. So, he looks right at it. He has no problem looking at it. And Jesus told a parable about a nobleman who went to a distant country to have himself appointed king. And his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him saying, we don’t want this man to be king over us. He was made king, however, and came back. And then dealt with the minas and all that and find out what people did with it. And then he said, “As for those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27). Well, this is in front of me. This is what it looks like.

The greatest displays of justice are two places in scripture, the cross of Jesus Christ and hell, eternal conscious torment.

Jesus looks right at it, and he’s actually doing it. It’s not like it’s happening and he’s giving his consent. This is something he’s doing. It’s a judgment. Now all of us, we have a hard time facing this. We have a hard time dealing with this, but this is what the passage is teaching. And the angels look on it. And as we’re going to see in Revelation 16:7, they celebrate the judgments of God. “Righteous you are O Lord, holy and true.” You are right for doing this. So, as I wrote my book on suffering and the questions of justice that come up often with suffering, the questions of justice, it’s like the two great displays of justice. The greatest displays of justice are two places in scripture, the cross of Jesus Christ and hell, eternal conscious torment. It is a display of the justice of God and God is not ashamed of it and neither will we be.

We will look on those that are in torment, and we will think it is right what they’re getting. And we will not have any pity. There’ll be no regrets that we have. There’ll be no sorrow because there is no more death, mourning, crying, or pain for the redeemed. And that includes vicarious pain or suffering or compassionate pain or suffering for those suffering in hell. It will not be the case. This is a very significant teaching. And it’s I would say in my book in heaven, I wrote a chapter on this called Memories of the Damned. And it was one of the hardest teachings.

I remember I’ve taught this in many settings, and you can see the looks on people’s faces. They’re not angry at me, they’re just more stunned. And they hadn’t thought about it before, but they agreed that what I was saying was true. That they will know loved ones that they knew on earth that were never Christians, but they loved them. They loved them, but they didn’t love Jesus. And we will know that they are suffering, but we’ll be in a completely different mental heart space at that point and be able to look on and see the justice of God in it.

Wes

As you mentioned, many have great difficulty accepting the doctrine of God’s wrath and of eternal torment in hell. What might we say to someone who says it’s unjust to punish someone eternally for something they did in time?

Andy

I understand that. I’ve thought about it myself and it just makes sense, but like it says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5). What does that mean? Your own understanding can be deceptive. I think what we don’t understand is that sin is proportional. Or a crime let’s say is proportional to the honor and the prestige of the person that you do it against. For example, when I was in Kenya in 1986 on a mission trip, I learned that the chieftain in a tribal area and the president of the country had something called the maze stick, which was like a scepter. And it represented his authority as president. You could imagine the scepter in the hand of the king of England, something like that.

If someone came and grabbed that scepter out of the king’s hand, it would be seen to be different than something that happened in the schoolyard with somebody grabbing a bat out of somebody’s hand or a hockey stick or something out. It doesn’t mean anything. It’s significant because of who he is and what’s intended by that symbol. And so, for us to fall short of or deny or lack the glory of God or strip God of his glory is an incredibly significant thing. It is eternally significant. It is infinitely significant. That’s the way I make sense of it. I don’t know how else I can say something you did one time, like even an instantaneous decision to receive the mark of the beast has an eternal consequence is hard for me to fathom. I don’t deny that.

Wes

What does verse 11 teach us about hell?

Andy

It’s eternal. The smoke of their torment rises forever and ever, and it’s conscious. They’re aware of their torment. So that’s what we mean by eternal conscious torment. That’s the doctrine. That’s what pastors have to step up to and preach. And the reason we have to preach it is because it’s real. Jesus warned people about hell, and we need to warn people about hell regularly. It is a reasonable inducement that people have to flee the wrath to come and to believe in Jesus instead. So, what I get out of verse 11 is, and I sometimes I’ve quoted it all by itself, “The smoke of their torment rises forever. There is no rest day or night.” And so, what that tells me is it’s eternal, and therefore we must flee it.

Wes

How does verse 12 connect with what proceeds and what description does John give to the saints in verse 12?

Andy

Well, the context again is receiving the mark of the beast. So, we’ve gone from chapter 12, which is the dragon. And then his warfare. And then he’s thrown down to the earth with his angels, demons. And then chapter 13, the dragon stands by the sea and calls the beast from the sea. And the beast then represents a man who rules an empire, and the empire is evil and demonic. It’s the ultimate rulership of Babylon. And now we’ve got this whole warning to not receive the mark of the beast. And so, then the call to the saints is patient endurance. You have to be willing to endure those days that are going to be so bad, Jesus said, that if they had not been cut short, no one would survive. There would be literally no believers left on earth. And why? Because Jesus said very plainly, they will betray you and hate you and turn you over to the tribunals, and you’ll be put to death many of you because of me.

So fundamentally then your job is to stand firm as Jesus said plainly, “He who stands firm to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13). So, what we have to do is stand firm in our faith. When we’re arrested and brought before the tribunals or the power of the Antichrist and all that, stand firm, do not buckle, do not yield, do not receive the mark of the beast. And don’t worry ahead of time what you’ll say or do because the Spirit of God will be on you. If you’re a genuine Christian, you will continue to believe in Jesus. You choose it, and the Lord will give you the words you need to say and the courage you need to die well. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments to repent and believe in Jesus and follow. In general, to not worship idols and remain faithful to Jesus. So, I think that’s the context.

Wes

How’s verse 13 meant to be an encouragement to saints during the period when the beast stalks the earth demanding worship, and that people receive his mark?

Andy

So again, the call is for patient endurance and that will mean martyrdom for a lot of people. I mean, Satan and the Antichrist are not playing around. They really do mean for there to be one world with everyone following and worshiping and doing the same thing. And if you want, they’ll kill you. They just want you out. So, they’re not going to hesitate. There’ll be no pity.

And so, then if you’re going to have that command to patient endurance, we also need a promise of blessing that comes, and that is resurrection. Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Blessed means happy. You’re in a very good place. Why? Because you’re a martyr. A martyr for the gospel. And how great will that be? Yes, as a spirit, they will rest from their labor and from all their sufferings. Why? For their deeds will follow them. And the deeds are all the good works that they did for Christ, but specifically the deeds that led up to their, immediately to their martyrdom, and they will celebrate them for all eternity. So, this is what I would say. The martyrs who die at that point will be incredibly thankful and completely thrilled and joyful for all eternity that they were chosen for such a privilege because it will be much to their honor. It will be a crown they will wear for all eternity.

They will not regret it at all. Let me share with you a verse that’s really caused me, I’m memorizing Luke right now and I’m just like, I can’t figure this out, but I think I’ve come to it in this way. Let me tell you what it says. It’s in Luke 21 and he says something like this, “You’ll be betrayed and hated by all people and many of you will be put to death. All men will hate you because of my name, but not a hair of your head will perish.” I’m like, all right, now I’m scratching my head. One verse ago you said, many will be put to death, but not a hair of your head will perish. I’m like, that sounds like perishing to me. So, then it occurred to me, the only way I can understand that it says, because the next thing he says there is, “By standing firm, you’ll gain life.”

So, the key for me was the concept of gaining life. So, it’s something you don’t have yet. So therefore, I believe it’s hair you don’t have yet either. It’s resurrection hair, not a hair of your resurrected head will perish. You’ll be there with a full head of hair in your resurrection body. And will you regret your martyrdom at that point? No, they didn’t do you any harm at all. They did you the greatest service and the greatest honor imaginable. They weren’t trying to do that, but they did. Not a hair of your head will perish. Anyway. That’s the best way I could put all that together.

Wes

Now it said that this blessing is for those who die in the Lord, and that they’re going to a place of rest from labor. What does it mean that the deeds of those who die in the Lord follow them?

Andy

It’s I think doctrine of rewards. He’s going to say at the end of Revelation, Revelation 22:12, the Lord is going to say, “Behold, I’m coming soon. My reward is with me, and I’ll repay everyone according to what he has done.” So that’s what it means. Their deeds will follow them. First, we’ll never forget them. We’ll review them in heaven, and you’ll be rewarded.

Wes

Andy, what final thoughts do you have for us on these verses we’ve looked at in Revelation 14?

Andy

It is totally valid to say I became a Christian because I was afraid of hell, and I knew Jesus was the only remedy.

Well, they’ve been overwhelming, haven’t they? And so, I would commend the sermons that I preached on Revelation for more careful and thorough treatment of it. Many cross references in which Jesus warns about hell. We need to realize this is a serious doctrine. We need to take it seriously, not shrink back from it. We are not being loving to people to shrink back from warning them that are on their way. The angel warned them. We need to warn people. And we need to not think wrongly about negative inducements to faith in Christ. It is totally valid to say I became a Christian because I was afraid of hell, and I knew Jesus was the only remedy. That’s a completely valid way. It’s incomplete because then little by little you find out how wonderful it is that your name is written in heaven. So, both of those, but I think it’s necessary for us as evangelists, preachers, missionaries, as Christians to believe in the doctrine of eternal conscious torment and to proclaim it. And say that in Christ there is not just a remedy, but the only remedy.

Wes

Well, this has been Episode 19 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 20, entitled Two Visions of Divine Judgment, Harvest and Wine Press, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:14-20. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Wes

This is episode 19 in our Revelation Bible Study Podcast entitled The Proclamations of the Three Angels, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:6-13. I’m Wes Treadway and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we’re looking at today?

Andy

Well, we’re going to see three angels that are given by God a message to proclaim to the whole earth. It’s very unusual. Angels, the word angel does mean messenger, but one of the angels is given the eternal gospel to proclaim worldwide. And though that ministry is usually given to humans, here, an angel does it. But then the next two are predicting judgment that is coming. The judgment coming on Babylon, the world system, and then the warning to any that receive the mark of the beast, that they’ll suffer eternal conscious torment in hell. So today as we look at especially what was said by the third angel, we have the chance to look briefly and perhaps, I think needfully at one of the most difficult doctrines in the Bible. And that is the doctrine of hell as a place of eternal conscious torment.

Wes

Well, let me go ahead and read Revelation 14:6-13 as we begin.

Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.” 

Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.” 

And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.” 

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

What message does the first angel bear and what’s the significance of the fact that God entrusted this mission to an angel? To whom does the angel preach this gospel?

Andy

Well, in verses 6 and 7, Revelation 14, the angel is flying in midair or mid-heaven, and he’s given what’s called the eternal gospel. And that gospel he is given to proclaim to those who live on the earth, to every nation, tribe, language, and people. And so, he calls this out powerfully, that people should fear God and glorify him because judgment is coming and has come. And then he goes to natural theology. Worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water, etc. So that’s what he’s given. It’s interesting and noteworthy for a couple of reasons. First of all, what’s said is that he has given the eternal gospel. So, there is only one gospel, there’s not many gospels. Galatians makes this very plain. There is that one gospel that is given through Jesus Christ of the incarnation, the life, the death, the atoning death in blood on the cross by Jesus Christ and his bodily resurrection from the dead and repentance and faith in his name, bringing forgiveness of sins. That is the one gospel.

And Paul makes it very clear in Galatians 1:8, “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach another gospel, let him be eternally condemned.” Ironic that he would say that in light of the passage we’re looking at now. But there are false angels. There are demons that were fallen angels, and they could preach a false gospel, etc. But the fact is this angel is given the eternal gospel, the one gospel. So, there is only one gospel, but it’s called here the eternal gospel, meaning it was crafted in the mind of God before time began as 2 Timothy 1 says. God made this gospel, this good news message up in his own mind before creating heaven and earth. The triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit came up with this idea and this way of saving sinners.

The gospel is then entrusted to messengers, and in this case it’s an angel. What is it that makes that unusual? Well, we don’t have any example of an angel in any other place in the New Testament preaching the gospel in its totality. We do have angels that announce aspects of the life of Jesus, such as his birth to the shepherds outside Bethlehem and his resurrection to the women who came to complete Jesus’ burial process. But they’re not given the complete gospel message. They’re not entrusted with the message of God, man, Christ, response, the full gospel message, except this one is given the gospel to proclaim. And he proclaims it to everyone on earth.

Wes

Now in verse 7, we see the angel proclaiming with a loud voice, and we get the contents of that proclamation. How would you characterize the angel’s message and what does the first angel’s proclamation teach us about evangelism, missions, and worship?

Andy

Well, what I learned from this is that fear or negative inducement is a valid reason to come to Christ. Fear God and give him glory because the hour of his judgment has come. Judgment Day is coming. Flee to Christ. Like John the Baptist said, “Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come” (Matthew 3:7)? We should be warned and flee to the only refuge there is. And that’s a totally valid reason for salvation. Imagine fearing the flood in Noah’s day, coming and running and getting on the ark. I would call that wise. All right, so what I get out of this is that it is a beneficial thing to warn, actually an essential thing to warn people of the judgment to come and of the wrath to come. And this passage that we’re looking at today, especially what the third angel says, is a very good thing to be terrified of. It’s a very good inducement for us.

So, I would say a holistic set of inducements to come into Christ would be negative and positive. Negatively to flee hell, to flee the wrath to come, the judgment of God that’s coming on the earth for wickedness and sins. Positively to realize that heaven is a place of delight and glory, a world of love, a place you will not want to miss. As a matter of fact, I’ve said before that hell is so horrible, so infinitely terrible for all eternity, eternal conscious torment, that just to not be sent there and to have some completely neutral ongoing existence but not be in hell as you deserve would be like a heaven.

Conversely, heaven is so good and so amazing and so rich in all of its blessings. Even if there were no hell, to miss out and have some kind of neutral experience, but you’re not included in the blessedness of those who are there would be like a hell. We therefore get either an eternal double curse of not being in heaven and being in hell or an eternal double blessing of not being in hell and being in heaven. So, these are weighty things that we’re thinking about today.

Wes

What does this then teach us about worship toward the end of verse 7?

Andy

We should worship God because of his creation and his power, worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and the springs of water. So, I think of course, recently I’ve been writing a book on suffering based on Job. And when God comes to deal with Job and his misery and his sorrow and his suffering, he comes down in a whirlwind and then goes through natural theology. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? And he goes through all the inanimate aspects of creation, which is the earth itself, the seas, oceans, rivers, the clouds, the weather, all of that. And then the stars, the beings up in the cosmos, sun, moon, and stars, etc. And then he goes to ten creatures, animals of various types, etc. The sum total of all of that is look at the incredible power and wisdom and love of God in creation.

And so, this angel here is saying, worship him who made all these things. Look at the stars and consider them. Count them if you can, God said to Abraham, so shall your offspring be. The stars are amazing. God made them. You look at the sun and you can’t look at it long, you can’t look at it for more than half a second, but it’s powerful and bright and amazing. Look at the beauty of the moon, etc. Those are the celestial beings. And then you look at all of the sea. If you ever go to the coast and you see, like after a big storm and the waves are crashing in and you maybe even feel the mist on your face and you hear the power of the waves crashing and you think, God controls it. I could go on and on. You look at all these creatures and you think, worship God who made them.

Wes

So that’s the first angel in verses 6-7. What’s the message of the second angel and what does Babylon the Great represent here in verse 8?

Andy

Well, the second angel comes and says, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.” Now this is a precursor of Revelation 17 and 18, which God willing we’ll work through in great detail. But that describes the fall of Babylon. Here the angel is saying it’s a done deal even though it hasn’t happened yet in the way we’re reading the book of Revelation. It does say it’s past tense, but we know that frequently prophecies are given with past tense language. For example, the clearest to me is Isaiah 53, which talks about the death of Jesus in the past tense, even though it was proclaimed by Isaiah seven centuries before he was born. And so, it’s as good as done, put it that way. Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great.

Now what is Babylon the Great? Babylon the Great is presented as a whore, and it’s presented as this enticing world system. It’s the ancient enemies of the soul, the world, the flesh, and the devil. It’s the world, and it’s the world system with all of its idols and with all of its allurements and all of its enticements and its passions and its lusts and its concerns. So that’s it. Now fallen means is going to come under the judgment of God. We’re going to a world in which there is no Babylon the Great. We’re going to a world of creation which the angel just celebrates. It’s going to be beautiful creation, but we won’t idolize the creation. We won’t worship and serve the creature rather than the Creator. But Babylon is all about worshiping the creature and not the Creator. And that system is going to fall, and it made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.

So, the idea of adultery there is really spiritual, although there is certainly physical sexual sin that’s involved in it. But fundamentally we were made to love God. And in fact, to be married to God. And then when we turn away from God in discontent and turn to creatures, turn to idols and embrace them and love them as we should be loving God, he looks on that as adultery. And the Babylonian system is enticing. It’s intoxicating, and it allures people into or entices people into sins of wickedness. So, Babylon the Great made people drunk with basically, idolatries.

Wes

Now this image of drinking is going to show up again as we get to the message of the third angel, this proclamation and warning against worshiping the beast and its image. For a second time, that image of drinking is used. What does it mean to drink from the cup of God’s wrath? And why is this image of drinking wine used here in verse 10 as we are introduced to the third angel in verse 9?

Andy

Well, the third angel that’s again flying (I would imagine in mid-heaven like the first one was), is giving another warning. And so, the second angel gives a warning. Now the third one. If anyone worships the beast in his image and receives his mark on his forehead or on the hand. All right. So obviously we’re in the middle of the Book of Revelation. We didn’t do any context work or pre-work. You’d have to go back and listen to the earlier podcasts, but we know what’s going on. The beast is the Antichrist, the beast from the sea, so to speak. It’s that one-world ruler ruling a massive demonic or even satanic empire. And he forces the inhabitants to receive his mark on the forehead or on the hand in order to buy or sell, which means basically in order to be part of society. You want to be part of our world; you have to have this.

And so, if you choose to receive the mark, then it says he too will drink of the wine of God’s fury. So, the image of drinking is a way prophetic image that Isaiah, Jeremiah, others used, Habakkuk used it. The cup of wine that you drink to the bottom. And it makes you drunk and crazy, mad with what you drink. And so, it’s frequently used as an image of judgment, but it comes with the understanding of just drinking wine. And so, you drink it from a goblet. And if you drink too much, you get drunk, you become crazy, it starts to affect your behavior. So here the idea is drinking the wine of God’s fury is pure judgment. And the idea is you’re going to drink it as it says, poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. So, this is the full complete experience of the wrath of God, and it’s poured down your throat.

If you choose to receive the mark of the beast, you’ll spend eternity in hell.

You can imagine not something just affecting your skin, but it’s into your guts, it’s into your intestines, it’s within you. It’s a complete and total experience of the wrath of God. And who receives it? Those that receive the mark of the beast and his image, etc. So, what this tells us is at that time, at that point, both Satan/the Antichrist and God are standing in front of you. And you’re at a crossroads, and you have to choose. And this warning makes it very plain. If you choose to receive the mark of the beast, you’ll spend eternity in hell. So, we should understand about the mark of the beast. It’s not something that can be slipped on you or some microchip that got put in your skin while you were asleep. And now you’ve got it and there was nothing you could do, like it’s some kind of midnight ninja attack or something like that on your soul. Nothing of the kind.

It’s a conscious choice you’re making to turn away from God and from Jesus Christ, to save your own comfortable life in this world. And fit into the overtly demonic and wicked system that Satan has set up through the Antichrist. And you’re embracing that, and saying, I’m going to choose that for the sake of my comforts and for the sake of my eating and drinking and et cetera. That’s a conscious choice you would make at that point, and you’d spend eternity in hell for doing it. So, it’s a terrible warning here. And this passage says a great deal about the nature of hell, which I’m sure we’ll talk about at this point.

Wes

You mentioned the significance of the words full strength or without mixture. What do those words teach us about the nature of hell?

Andy

Well, people back then would dilute wine. They’d mix it with a little bit of water or with some fruit juice or something like that, and the alcohol content would go down. And you would have to drink a lot of it to get drunk. Now this is the full-on thing. This is full straight wrath. God doesn’t hold back anything. And it’s hard for me, Wes, even at this point to think about that. I’ve said before that hell and the wrath of God as displayed in hell is God’s omniscience and his omnipotence focused like a laser on your eternal destruction. He’s thinking about you, to bring curse on you in a way that you will hate for all eternity. He’s not missing. He is doing what is necessary to show you his passion about sin and about what sin has done to his universe. And so, it’s really quite terrifying. It’s meant to be. When we read these words, we’re supposed to be afraid. The angel said, “Fear God and believe, because judgment is coming.”

And so out of fear we flee the wrath to come. Well, there’s nothing held back. He’s full-on destroying people for all eternity. This is why people can’t accept it. So many witty philosophical writers and others and scientists and atheists just look at this and say, how could anyone even believe such a terrible doctrine? But this is what we believe, eternal, conscious torment. And sadly, even some supposedly evangelical preachers have turned away from eternal conscious torment to accept annihilationism because it’s neater and cleaner. But it’s no threat at all. If you think your average wicked person is being threatened with non-existence, it’s the very thing they often want. When they commit suicide, they want non-existence. God isn’t going to give them what they want. They’re going out of the frying pan into the fire, and the fire is his wrath. And so, this is full strength. And they will be, it says, tormented for all eternity.

Wes

And it says they’ll be tormented with fire and sulfur specifically in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. How should we understand this latter half of verse 10?

Andy

Well, the burning or fiery sulfur, the word sulfur is interesting. It’s just in the Bible, and it’s also connected with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I don’t know why in particular, but there it is. And so, there’s a stench involved. It’s a terrible smell, but the real terror is fire. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be on fire forever, but this is obviously a precursor of the latter verses that discuss the lake of fire. So, swimming in fire like molten lava is on fire. And you think about that, I think the idea is it’s a metaphor, but we should always realize that the reality is far greater than the metaphor. And so that’s the idea of the person is tormented with burning sulfur. So, we need to get away from any minimization of hell as just the absence of blessing or the absence of being with God, the absence.

It is all that and that’s sad enough, but it’s the presence of burning sulfur. It’s the presence of torment. So, it’s not a neutral experience, it’s wrath. And so, we look at that, and then it says, “In the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.” This is a very significant statement, and I want to add, I believe in Isaiah 66:24, they’re also tormented in the presence of the redeemed. So, and it makes sense. Even though the redeemed aren’t mentioned here, God isn’t hiding anything from his children in heaven. And so, what this shows me is that the Lord is not ashamed of what’s going on. As the German citizens often were ashamed of what they knew was happening at Auschwitz or that was in Poland. But there were concentration camps in Germany, and the citizens knew what was going on, and they were ashamed. When the Allies came in, they knew that that was wrong, and they were ashamed of it.

God isn’t at all ashamed of hell. There’s nothing shameful for God to do this. The shame is on those who are in the place of eternal conscious torment. So, he looks right at it. He has no problem looking at it. And Jesus told a parable about a nobleman who went to a distant country to have himself appointed king. And his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him saying, we don’t want this man to be king over us. He was made king, however, and came back. And then dealt with the minas and all that and find out what people did with it. And then he said, “As for those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27). Well, this is in front of me. This is what it looks like.

The greatest displays of justice are two places in scripture, the cross of Jesus Christ and hell, eternal conscious torment.

Jesus looks right at it, and he’s actually doing it. It’s not like it’s happening and he’s giving his consent. This is something he’s doing. It’s a judgment. Now all of us, we have a hard time facing this. We have a hard time dealing with this, but this is what the passage is teaching. And the angels look on it. And as we’re going to see in Revelation 16:7, they celebrate the judgments of God. “Righteous you are O Lord, holy and true.” You are right for doing this. So, as I wrote my book on suffering and the questions of justice that come up often with suffering, the questions of justice, it’s like the two great displays of justice. The greatest displays of justice are two places in scripture, the cross of Jesus Christ and hell, eternal conscious torment. It is a display of the justice of God and God is not ashamed of it and neither will we be.

We will look on those that are in torment, and we will think it is right what they’re getting. And we will not have any pity. There’ll be no regrets that we have. There’ll be no sorrow because there is no more death, mourning, crying, or pain for the redeemed. And that includes vicarious pain or suffering or compassionate pain or suffering for those suffering in hell. It will not be the case. This is a very significant teaching. And it’s I would say in my book in heaven, I wrote a chapter on this called Memories of the Damned. And it was one of the hardest teachings.

I remember I’ve taught this in many settings, and you can see the looks on people’s faces. They’re not angry at me, they’re just more stunned. And they hadn’t thought about it before, but they agreed that what I was saying was true. That they will know loved ones that they knew on earth that were never Christians, but they loved them. They loved them, but they didn’t love Jesus. And we will know that they are suffering, but we’ll be in a completely different mental heart space at that point and be able to look on and see the justice of God in it.

Wes

As you mentioned, many have great difficulty accepting the doctrine of God’s wrath and of eternal torment in hell. What might we say to someone who says it’s unjust to punish someone eternally for something they did in time?

Andy

I understand that. I’ve thought about it myself and it just makes sense, but like it says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5). What does that mean? Your own understanding can be deceptive. I think what we don’t understand is that sin is proportional. Or a crime let’s say is proportional to the honor and the prestige of the person that you do it against. For example, when I was in Kenya in 1986 on a mission trip, I learned that the chieftain in a tribal area and the president of the country had something called the maze stick, which was like a scepter. And it represented his authority as president. You could imagine the scepter in the hand of the king of England, something like that.

If someone came and grabbed that scepter out of the king’s hand, it would be seen to be different than something that happened in the schoolyard with somebody grabbing a bat out of somebody’s hand or a hockey stick or something out. It doesn’t mean anything. It’s significant because of who he is and what’s intended by that symbol. And so, for us to fall short of or deny or lack the glory of God or strip God of his glory is an incredibly significant thing. It is eternally significant. It is infinitely significant. That’s the way I make sense of it. I don’t know how else I can say something you did one time, like even an instantaneous decision to receive the mark of the beast has an eternal consequence is hard for me to fathom. I don’t deny that.

Wes

What does verse 11 teach us about hell?

Andy

It’s eternal. The smoke of their torment rises forever and ever, and it’s conscious. They’re aware of their torment. So that’s what we mean by eternal conscious torment. That’s the doctrine. That’s what pastors have to step up to and preach. And the reason we have to preach it is because it’s real. Jesus warned people about hell, and we need to warn people about hell regularly. It is a reasonable inducement that people have to flee the wrath to come and to believe in Jesus instead. So, what I get out of verse 11 is, and I sometimes I’ve quoted it all by itself, “The smoke of their torment rises forever. There is no rest day or night.” And so, what that tells me is it’s eternal, and therefore we must flee it.

Wes

How does verse 12 connect with what proceeds and what description does John give to the saints in verse 12?

Andy

Well, the context again is receiving the mark of the beast. So, we’ve gone from chapter 12, which is the dragon. And then his warfare. And then he’s thrown down to the earth with his angels, demons. And then chapter 13, the dragon stands by the sea and calls the beast from the sea. And the beast then represents a man who rules an empire, and the empire is evil and demonic. It’s the ultimate rulership of Babylon. And now we’ve got this whole warning to not receive the mark of the beast. And so, then the call to the saints is patient endurance. You have to be willing to endure those days that are going to be so bad, Jesus said, that if they had not been cut short, no one would survive. There would be literally no believers left on earth. And why? Because Jesus said very plainly, they will betray you and hate you and turn you over to the tribunals, and you’ll be put to death many of you because of me.

So fundamentally then your job is to stand firm as Jesus said plainly, “He who stands firm to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13). So, what we have to do is stand firm in our faith. When we’re arrested and brought before the tribunals or the power of the Antichrist and all that, stand firm, do not buckle, do not yield, do not receive the mark of the beast. And don’t worry ahead of time what you’ll say or do because the Spirit of God will be on you. If you’re a genuine Christian, you will continue to believe in Jesus. You choose it, and the Lord will give you the words you need to say and the courage you need to die well. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments to repent and believe in Jesus and follow. In general, to not worship idols and remain faithful to Jesus. So, I think that’s the context.

Wes

How’s verse 13 meant to be an encouragement to saints during the period when the beast stalks the earth demanding worship, and that people receive his mark?

Andy

So again, the call is for patient endurance and that will mean martyrdom for a lot of people. I mean, Satan and the Antichrist are not playing around. They really do mean for there to be one world with everyone following and worshiping and doing the same thing. And if you want, they’ll kill you. They just want you out. So, they’re not going to hesitate. There’ll be no pity.

And so, then if you’re going to have that command to patient endurance, we also need a promise of blessing that comes, and that is resurrection. Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Blessed means happy. You’re in a very good place. Why? Because you’re a martyr. A martyr for the gospel. And how great will that be? Yes, as a spirit, they will rest from their labor and from all their sufferings. Why? For their deeds will follow them. And the deeds are all the good works that they did for Christ, but specifically the deeds that led up to their, immediately to their martyrdom, and they will celebrate them for all eternity. So, this is what I would say. The martyrs who die at that point will be incredibly thankful and completely thrilled and joyful for all eternity that they were chosen for such a privilege because it will be much to their honor. It will be a crown they will wear for all eternity.

They will not regret it at all. Let me share with you a verse that’s really caused me, I’m memorizing Luke right now and I’m just like, I can’t figure this out, but I think I’ve come to it in this way. Let me tell you what it says. It’s in Luke 21 and he says something like this, “You’ll be betrayed and hated by all people and many of you will be put to death. All men will hate you because of my name, but not a hair of your head will perish.” I’m like, all right, now I’m scratching my head. One verse ago you said, many will be put to death, but not a hair of your head will perish. I’m like, that sounds like perishing to me. So, then it occurred to me, the only way I can understand that it says, because the next thing he says there is, “By standing firm, you’ll gain life.”

So, the key for me was the concept of gaining life. So, it’s something you don’t have yet. So therefore, I believe it’s hair you don’t have yet either. It’s resurrection hair, not a hair of your resurrected head will perish. You’ll be there with a full head of hair in your resurrection body. And will you regret your martyrdom at that point? No, they didn’t do you any harm at all. They did you the greatest service and the greatest honor imaginable. They weren’t trying to do that, but they did. Not a hair of your head will perish. Anyway. That’s the best way I could put all that together.

Wes

Now it said that this blessing is for those who die in the Lord, and that they’re going to a place of rest from labor. What does it mean that the deeds of those who die in the Lord follow them?

Andy

It’s I think doctrine of rewards. He’s going to say at the end of Revelation, Revelation 22:12, the Lord is going to say, “Behold, I’m coming soon. My reward is with me, and I’ll repay everyone according to what he has done.” So that’s what it means. Their deeds will follow them. First, we’ll never forget them. We’ll review them in heaven, and you’ll be rewarded.

Wes

Andy, what final thoughts do you have for us on these verses we’ve looked at in Revelation 14?

Andy

It is totally valid to say I became a Christian because I was afraid of hell, and I knew Jesus was the only remedy.

Well, they’ve been overwhelming, haven’t they? And so, I would commend the sermons that I preached on Revelation for more careful and thorough treatment of it. Many cross references in which Jesus warns about hell. We need to realize this is a serious doctrine. We need to take it seriously, not shrink back from it. We are not being loving to people to shrink back from warning them that are on their way. The angel warned them. We need to warn people. And we need to not think wrongly about negative inducements to faith in Christ. It is totally valid to say I became a Christian because I was afraid of hell, and I knew Jesus was the only remedy. That’s a completely valid way. It’s incomplete because then little by little you find out how wonderful it is that your name is written in heaven. So, both of those, but I think it’s necessary for us as evangelists, preachers, missionaries, as Christians to believe in the doctrine of eternal conscious torment and to proclaim it. And say that in Christ there is not just a remedy, but the only remedy.

Wes

Well, this has been Episode 19 in our Revelation Bible Study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for Episode 20, entitled Two Visions of Divine Judgment, Harvest and Wine Press, where we’ll discuss Revelation 14:14-20. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. And may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

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