In this Bible study podcast, Andy Davis goes line by line through Hebrews 5:1-10. The author describes Jesus’s perfect ministry as our great High Priest. He is able to deal gently with us sinners since He Himself was tempted, but He is better than an ordinary human priest because He never sinned, so He is mighty to defeat temptation. He did not exalt himself, but was appointed by God to the Priesthood. In his suffering, Jesus set an example for us, and by His meek, lowly attitude He was heard by God and saved through death (not “from death”). “Saved” meaning, “delivered from sin”. Thus Jesus is our eternal High Priest able to help us survive a life in the flesh on earth and bring us finally to heaven.
The author describes Jesus’s perfect ministry as our great High Priest. He is able to deal gently with us sinners since He Himself was tempted, but He is better than an ordinary human priest because He never sinned, so He is mighty to defeat temptation. He did not exalt himself, but was appointed by God to the Priesthood. In his suffering, Jesus set an example for us, and by His meek, lowly attitude He was heard by God and saved through death (not “from death”). “Saved” meaning, “delivered from sin”. Thus Jesus is our eternal High Priest able to help us survive a life in the flesh on earth and bring us finally to heaven.
– Podcast Transcript –
Joel
Hi, welcome to the Two Journeys podcast. This is episode 10 in the book of Hebrews, going through Hebrews 5:1-10, Jesus the Great High Priest. I’m Joel Hartford and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, this section talks about the high priestly ministry of Jesus. It begins this discussion of why he’s so much greater than all the human priests that came before after the order of Aaron. Can you give us a brief overview of chapter five?
Andy
Absolutely. Hebrews 5 brings us for the first time, actually, end of chapter four on into chapter five, into the concept of Jesus as our high priest. Actually, it’s not developed anywhere else in the New Testament. We don’t see it. We have indications a little here or a little there. John 17, frequently called the high priestly prayer of Jesus, but he’s not said there to be a priest, he’s just praying for his people. And there’s other aspects in which you can see the priestly ministry. I think definitely the sense of a priest king was prepared for us. We’re going to talk about Melchizedek, but also in the book of Zechariah, we have a picture of the two becoming one, a priest king on the throne. But it’s only here in the New Testament overtly that we have Jesus depicted as our great high priest.
Joel
Well, for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Hebrews 5:1-10,
For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins, just as he does for those of the people. And no one takes this honor on himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you’; as he also says in another place, ‘You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.’ In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
So my first question to you, Andy, in verses one through three, Jesus is introduced as this high priest offering sacrifices for sins. What is the author’s goal in introducing Jesus as priest?
Andy
Well, it’s important for us to understand what a priest does. In the Latin, pontifex means bridge builder. And so it’s the idea of a mediator, one who can go between God and man. Because of our sin, we need a figure like this. In the old covenant, in the law of Moses, set up through the sons of Aaron, the Aaronic priesthood, we could say the Levitical priestly ministry, a pattern or a type or shadow, which helps us to understand more fully what Jesus came to do. So we have this idea of Jesus being our high priest, and it’s got all of this old covenant backdrop.
Joel
So what does a priest actually do?
Andy
Well, the author here tells us that the priest has two duties. He represents the people in matters related to God, so that points toward a prayer ministry, intercession, and he offers gifts and sacrifices. I would add a third thing the author doesn’t mention here, which is very significant, and that is teaching the people the law of God. Malachi 2 brings this up very plainly that the priest had faithful instruction on his lips. It says in Leviticus 10:11 that the Aaronic priests were to teach the people the decrees, or the laws, of Moses. The author doesn’t get into that here, but we see that teaching ministry in Jesus perfected in Jesus.
I will say that there’s a flow here, and we don’t want to neglect seeing that, that as we jump in here in chapter five verse one, we’re actually picking up a train of thought from the end of chapter four where it says, “We have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God.”(Hebrews 4:14) And he’s urging us, “because we have such a great high priest who is not unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we have, yet was without sin. Therefore, because we have this kind of a priest, we should draw near to the throne of grace.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 4:15-16) And so he flows right into that by talking about the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood.
Joel
Since we’re not first century Jews steeped in Judaism and the Aaronic priesthood, can you just give us the backdrop of what was the Aaronic priesthood? Explain the laws that God set up at Mount Sinai, explaining the priests who were going to minister at the tent and then the temple, and why that was so important first for the people and how God was going to dwell with them in the land, but then foreshadowing Christ?
Andy
Well, the overall goal of God is to bring a sinful people from being relationally distant from himself right into his very presence. But in order to do that, he has to humble us and teach us that we are distant and we have no right to come into his presence. And so the old covenant is basically based on a prohibition, starts right away at the burning bush, what God said through the Angel of the Lord in the flames of the burning bush to Moses. The first thing he said to Moses is, “Do not come any closer. Take off your sandals, for the ground on which you’re standing is holy ground.”(Paraphrase of Exodus 3:5) The idea is that there’s an attraction, a magnetic attraction to God. We want to know God, we’re drawn to him, but we are told by him that he is holy and we’re not, and so we’re on the outside. And so he’s telling us in the old covenant again and again, “Do not come any closer.” The old covenant was given at Mount Sinai through Moses, the representative. And Moses was instructed to put a barrier around the base of Mount Sinai, some kind of a wall to keep the people from going up on the mountain, despite the fact that God came in trappings of terror, of an earthquake and a fire and a loud voice and just absolute terror.
The author later in Hebrews is going to say the sight was so overpowering that Moses said, “I’m trembling with fear.” But he still said, “Build a fence, lest the people come up the mountain.” You’d think they’d be running miles away the other direction. But he knew the people and he said, “They’re going to want to come. And my lesson to them, my message to them, is this far you may come and no farther.” And so he set up the tabernacle with its basically cloth walls. Eventually became the temple with its physical walls, but it’s the same thing, “You’re not allowed to come.” And the author’s going to make all this point clear. We’ve got the holy place and the most holy place, and only the high priest can enter the most holy place. The priest is on the outside representing the people, and he alone is allowed to come into the presence of God. The whole thing, the author tells us, the Holy Spirit was teaching us by that, teaching us that the way wasn’t yet open for us, that we’re on the outside looking in, that we’re sinners that need to be saved by grace. But it’s also a type and a shadow pointing toward the One who could open for us the new and living way into the presence of God, which is his body. The author is going to make this plain. We have this access now through Jesus. He is our great high priest.
“The overall goal of God is to bring a sinful people from being relationally distant from himself right into his very presence. But in order to do that, he has to humble us and teach us that we are distant and we have no right to come into his presence.”
Joel
I really appreciate you explaining that. I think that’s huge because a lot of us have a hard time understanding the Old Testament regulations and laws. When they’re opened for us and shown to foreshadow Christ and to show what God is teaching us, it really makes the Old Testament come alive. I appreciate that.
Andy
It does. It’s a beautiful thing to see.
Joel
Now, regarding the duties of the high priest, how is a high priest able to deal gently with sinners and be sympathetic to their plight?
Andy
Well, the author says the reason they can do so is because they themselves are sinners. If they’re humble and they’re godly men, they know that. They have to offer sacrifices for their own sins as well as for the sins of others. And so they should be able to deal gently. It’s only the hypocrites, and we saw that a lot in the New Testament with these that seem to deny that they had any sins, the scribes and the Pharisees that Jesus is always dealing with, because they’re blind to their own sinfulness. But a genuine, softhearted, humble priest, a good priest, would recognize his own sinfulness; he would understand it and recognize it better than anyone else’s sinfulness. The author says that these old covenant priests, these Levitical priests from the sons of Aaron, were able to deal gently with sinners because they themselves were sinners.
Joel
Now, in verse three, is Jesus being compared or contrasted with the human high priest? I should say merely human because Jesus is also a human, he’s fully human-
Andy
He’s definitely human.
Joel
-But he’s more than that.
Andy
That’s a good question. Those two words compare and contrast. He is being compared, definitely. They are types and shadows. He’s the fulfillment, but there’s a definite contrasting too because, “He was tempted in every way, but was without sin.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 4:15) That’s been clearly established. He never needed to offer sacrifice for His own sins. And frankly, if he had had to do so, he could not have represented us because he would’ve been busy offering sacrifice for his own sins. That’s why Jesus is set apart from them. He is holy and they’re not, and so he is able to offer once for all time his own body and blood as a final sacrifice. So definitely this is a contrast. He is different than those Levitical priests were.
Joel
The superiority of him as a priest, and we see that later in, I think, chapter seven where it talks about how in his calling, he’s made priest by an oath. They’re made priest by genealogy and they just keep dying, but he lives forever. But I know we’re getting ahead of ourselves.
Andy
Chapter seven, we’ll get to there at some point.
Joel
Now, in Hebrews 5:4, it says, “No one takes this honor on himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was.” What is the significance of the fact that it is God who calls the priest and you’re not allowed to bestow that honor on yourself?
Andy
Sure. Actually, we have a lot of historical background on this. He made it very plain what the job of the Levites was going to be concerning the tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant. There were different tasks, and there were sons of Levi that had different roles to play. But specifically, the sons of Aaron were selected to be the high priest who would offer the sacrifice on the mercy seat, on the atonement cover on the top of the Ark of the Covenant. He was the only one permitted to go into the Holy of Holies, those laws, those rules and regulations, were all given by God. Aaron didn’t say one day, “I’d like to be a priest. Moses, what can you do? You’re close to God. Make it happen for me.” It was just something that wasn’t even on his radar screen, perhaps, didn’t fully understand. God set the whole thing up. The animal sacrificial system didn’t even exist. In the midst of learning about the tabernacle with its length of cloths and its standards and stanchions and posts and all that and cross members, along with that, there are the instructions in the book of Exodus about the priest, and his garments and his turban and jewels on his breastplate and all of these things. God thought all this up, and then he called Aaron to serve as the first priest.
The point is: you can’t take this honor on yourself. God wouldn’t recognize you. We have some examples of individuals who sinfully, boldly acted in this regard, and they paid for it big time. For example, Nadab and Abihu, who took it upon themselves to offer unauthorized fire to God, a sacrifice that God did not command. And then a clear example with Uzziah, who was from the line of Judah, he was a king, but he tried to go in and offer incense to God. The priest courageously confronted him and said, “It’s not lawful for you to be here.” The law commanded that the priests be taken from the sons of Aaron, and the kingly line, as the authors going to make clear later, came from the descendants of David, Judah. That was cut off from the Davidic line. And so you can’t just up and do this. You can’t take it on yourself to come into the presence of a holy God. God has to open the way. Specifically, the honor of being a high priest, God the Father had to give it to Jesus.
Joel
Now, if you’d allow me to just take a slight digression from the honor of being the priest to just honor in general. We tend to want to bestow honor on ourselves. This is exactly the opposite, though, of what the Son of God did. I remember in John 8, they accused Jesus of having a demon and being a Samaritan. He says, “I do not seek my glory, but it is my Father-“(Paraphrase of John 8:50)
Andy
“There is One who seeks-”(John 8:50)
Joel
Yeah, “There is one who seeks and judges,”(Paraphrase of John 8:50) just that idea that if we choose not to honor ourselves and humble ourselves, that God will honor us.
Andy
“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”(James 4:6) He exalts those that are humble. And Jesus, no one has ever humbled himself more than Jesus. And therefore, God exalted Him to the highest place. So when it comes to this issue of the priesthood, Jesus didn’t take it on himself to be priest. You’d think if anybody ever could have said, “Look, I’m the Son of God. I’m the only begotten Son of God. I have the right to be priest.” But he didn’t do that. That wasn’t his mentality at all. He did not take on himself the glory of being a high priest. Along with this, we see again and again that Jesus said, “Look, I do nothing apart from the will of the Father. I don’t do anything. I don’t speak a word except the Father told me to say it. I don’t turn stones into bread because the Father didn’t tell me to do that. I don’t throw myself out the pinnacle of the temple. The Father didn’t tell me to do that. I don’t do anything except at the mouth of God. What God tells me to do, I do. So the words I speak are not my own. They belong to God who sent me. I came down from heaven not to do my own will, but to do the will of him who sent me. I don’t do anything apart from God.” So Jesus is very humble here and does not take on Himself the glory of being a high priest.
Joel
Well, in your answer, you nearly quoted Hebrews 5:5 where it says, “So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made high priest, but was appointed.” And then instead of saying appointed by God or appointed by the Father, he says, “But was appointed by him who said to him,” and then he quotes Psalm 2:7 again, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you.” Then he adds another quote on top of that, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”(Hebrews 5:6) This is from Psalm 110. How do these quotes of saying that it is written of Jesus, how does this show that Jesus was appointed by God to be high priest?
Andy
Well, first we have to establish here his humanity. Jesus was declared to be a Son at his incarnation and also at his resurrection. And so at these two key moments, both of them are linked to him being becoming flesh, the Word becoming flesh. He could not have been our mediator; he could not have been our priest, except that he was human. And so he had to be able to, like Job said, “If only there was someone who could lay a hand upon us both.”(Paraphrase of Job 9:33) Jesus is that bridge builder, that mediator. The author is, in a very complex and marvelous way here, quoting, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”(Psalm 2:7) linking it to his status as a human being. But also, “You are my Son.” So there’s a sense that, let’s marvel in this, that he has the Father’s ear, and that everything that he asks his father for, he’ll get. You want someone like that approaching the throne and interceding for us because He’s going to get everything he asks for. So Jesus did not take the glory on himself of being a high priest, but God said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have begotten you,” or become your Father. “I prepared a body for you. I prepared a human body for you so that you could be a priest and you could offer that body as a sacrifice.”
Joel
Can you talk about him being designated a priest after the order of Melchizedek from Psalm 110?
Andy
Sure. This is a mysterious thing that happens, just pops up in the Genesis account. Genesis 14, I believe. This mysterious figure, Melchizedek, we don’t need to go into detail right now because the author stops himself right in the middle of this discussion in a moment at the end of chapter five, which I think we’ll discuss next time, our next podcast. But he says, “I have a lot more to say about Melchizedek, but I got to dress you guys down first. I got to do some rebuking. I got to slap you around a little bit because you’re so immature and you can’t handle this advanced teaching.” But the Melchizedek teaching is advanced teaching. He’s going to go into great detail in chapter seven about it, so we’ll refrain a bit, but I’ll give a little preview. This individual pops up in Genesis 14, and then you don’t hear anything more about him at all. Nothing until David writes Psalm 110, “The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet,'”(Psalm 110:1) a Messianic psalm. And in that same psalm, he says, “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest of forever in the order of Melchizedek.’”(Psalm 110:4) It just comes up out of nowhere, and he says this is the priesthood of Jesus. “You are my Son and this is the honor I have for you.” So again, there’s much more to say and he will say in chapter seven.
Joel
Well, Two Journeys podcast listeners, we don’t think you are too immature to learn about Melchizedek, but we’re just following the flow of the text.
Andy
Following the text.
Joel
We think you’re ready, but we’ll have to wait until chapter seven. Now, getting into Hebrews 5:7, “In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.” This must speak of Gethsemane, right?
Andy
I think so. I think he’s talking about Gethsemane, and just the passion and the power and the intimacy of Jesus’ prayer life. This is perfect prayer. And so again, big picture, what the author is doing… And we’ve said this many other times on these podcasts, but let me say it again. What’s going on is the author is addressing Jewish people who had made a profession of faith in Christ, but who are under intense pressure to turn their backs on Jesus and go back to old covenant Judaism. Well, what are they going back to? Well, they’re going back to the animal sacrificial system and back to the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood. And what the author’s going to do here is say that Jesus is superior to that. He’s a better priest. He is called by God to be his Son, but also to be a priest in the order of Melchizedek, which is a better priesthood, as he’s going to argue. So this is a better priestly ministry.
But one of the things priests do is they intercede for you. And so in the consummation of the Melchizedek argument in chapter seven, the pinnacle of it is Hebrew 7:25, that Jesus ever lives to intercede for us. And how does he pray? He prays like he prayed in Gethsemane. He prays for your soul with that kind of passion and power. And the most important thing is that he’s heard. The Lord hears him. And that he can know that he has whatever he asks on our behalf. You want someone like this praying for you. The author is referring to Jesus’s time on earth, the time of his physical earthly ministry. And during his time on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions, it says, fervently or passionately crying out, even with tears, and he offered them up to God. So let’s say he at least did that in Gethsemane. He might’ve done that other times because Jesus had a very active prayer life.
Joel
I remember being shocked, I think it’s in Luke when he goes to pick his disciples, and it says he spent all night on the mountain in prayer. My jaw just dropped. I couldn’t believe it.
Andy
You’d think if anybody could have just made the decision on his own with his own wisdom, no one was wiser than Jesus. But Jesus is constantly modeling: “I don’t do anything apart from the Father.”(Paraphrase of John 5:19) He’s training us because we’re so sinfully, wretchedly, independent. And so Jesus gives us this picture of a Son going to his Father, crying out, “Abba, Father. If it is possible, let this cup be taken from me,”(Paraphrase of Mark 14:36) speaking of Gethsemane. He’s there on the ground, and great drops of blood are forming on his brow and they’re dripping to the ground because of the intensity and the agony with which he poured out his soul. One Puritan writer said, “Painted fire is no fire at all, and neither are cold prayers real prayers.” Sometimes our prayers are like painted fire. There’s nothing to it, there’s no passion, there’s no heart. But that’s not the way it is with Jesus. He passionately, fervently prayed to his father. And the intimacy, “Abba, Father, all things are possible with you. If it is possible, let this cup be taken from me.” And in this way, you see the kind of intensity and intimacy that Jesus will use for you. That’s where we’re going. In Hebrews 7:25, you get this kind of intercessory prayer ministry on your behalf.
Joel
That’s beautiful. Now, one more question regarding verse seven. It says he prays, “To him who was able to save him from death.”(Hebrews 5:7) But Jesus wasn’t saved from death. We do know he was, of course, resurrected on the third day, but he did experience death. So what does this teach us about unanswered prayers?
Andy
Well, God the Father was able to do anything. Jesus said it, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Is it possible that I would not die?” Actually, nothing could have been more possible than that. Jesus, in him was life. If anyone ever would’ve lived forever, it would’ve been Jesus. So it’s actually expected that he would not die. So the idea is certainly he was able to save Jesus from death. But at one level, it was impossible, because here’s the thing. Jesus says, “Abba, Father, all things are possible. Is it possible,” he said, basically asking a question, “Is it possible for me not to drink this cup?” Though the Father never says anything in the Gethsemane account, Jesus knows he has his answer, “It’s not possible. So it is not possible if, if you’re going to save the sons of Abraham, the ones that you came into the world to save, if you’re going to save them, you must die.” So there is no other way. And then effectively, a different question comes, but it’s from the Father to the Son. “If it’s not possible, will you do it? Will you drink this cup I’m handing to you?” And Jesus effectively says yes. “Not my will, but yours be done.” That’s incredible, the submission, the piety, the reverent fear that the author mentions here. He heard Jesus’s prayer. So yeah, it was possible for the Father to save Jesus from death. He was the only one that could. Honestly, think of it this way. Once Judas left and Jesus went to Gethsemane, where Judas knew he would go, the only thing that could deliver Jesus from 600 Roman soldiers is supernatural power. Just in and of himself, he’s done. He’s a dead man. So he knew the only one who could save him from death at that point was the Father, and the Father said no.
Joel
I remember you talking, I think when you were preaching through Matthew, that that was possibly the most courageous moment in history for any human being, was Jesus-
Andy
Well, I think we’re going to give the top honor of all godly virtue to Jesus in every regard. We would have to say his whole life was one of courage. Every day, he exhibited courage. But this is the pinnacle. I wouldn’t say it ended once he got up from his prayer and walked out and presented himself, like in John’s gospel, and say, “Whom are you seeking?” “Jesus of Nazareth.” And he says, “I am,” and they arrest him. He’s courageous all the way through, but this is such a clear display of courage to be willing to drink that cup.
Joel
Sorry, I did have one more on verse seven. It says, “He was heard because of his reverence.”(Hebrews 5:7) Why this emphasis on his reverence?
Andy
Well, he knew better than we do who it is he’s talking to. We forget who we’re talking to. We have these rote prayers, these trite prayers. We stumble into God’s presence, forgetting who we’re talking to. Jesus never lost sight of the infinite majesty of his heavenly Father. He had really a godly fear here. It’s hard to even imagine, but that’s the word that the author uses here, “He was heard because of his fear.”(Hebrews 5:7) Other translations have piety, but it all has to do with a godly submission and fear in relation to the Creator God, the Ruler God. And so that demeanor, that attitude, is essential to him being pleasing to God. God is pleased with that kind of godly submission, with that kind of fear, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”(Proverbs 9:10) Jesus perfectly displayed that. He was heard because of it. It was on the basis of his demeanor, on the basis of his piety, his godliness, God the Father welcomed him and heard him.
“We forget who we’re talking to. We have these rote prayers, these trite prayers. We stumble into God’s presence forgetting who we’re talking to. Jesus never lost sight of the infinite majesty of his heavenly Father.”
Joel
Now, how did he learn obedience through what he suffered? And then it says, “Being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation.”(Hebrews 5:9) So one, how did he learn obedience? And how did he, quote, “Being made perfect,” how was he made perfect?
Andy
These are great, great questions. We should never imagine at any moment that there was any moral imperfection in Jesus, that he could be improved in terms of his holiness or improved in terms of his purity. None of that’s possible. Jesus was perfect all the way through. However, he did learn. Honestly, when we’re looking at the mystery of the incarnation, it’s just beyond us to comprehend how Jesus could be God and human at the same time. It’s just going to cause the circuit breakers to blow in our minds. And so here, you have the omnipotent God in the form of a helpless baby wrapped up in swaddling clothes. How is that possible? Or you have the omniscient God learning things as a toddler through Joseph and Mary. Jesus learned wisdom and grew up. He grew in wisdom. That meant he grew more and more in knowledge of the word of God and other things. That’s just the mystery of the incarnation. Once you accept that and you see that going on, then you say, “Okay, in his humanity, he was able to learn things. In his deity, he never learned anything and never will.” Omniscience can’t be improved on. But in his humanity, he learned and he grew and developed. But I think this is more speaking of his office as our mediator and as our high priest. He was made perfect, or I would think maybe a better concept here would be qualified. He was qualified to be our Savior by his death on the cross, let’s say. If he hadn’t died on the cross, he would not be qualified to be our Savior.
In the same way, he was qualified to be our high priest by suffering things we suffered. So he had to do it by experience. The author’s saying, it seems, that in order to be a merciful and faithful high priest, he had to be able to look us in the eye and say, “I know exactly how you feel. I went through it myself.” And so we can say, “Yes, You did. You experienced hunger. You experienced thirst. You experience rejection from sinful people. You experienced pain. You experienced death. You experienced temptation. So you are qualified, or perfected, in your office as our great high priest, our mediator, by having lived through those experiences.”
The author says the same thing back in Hebrews 2:10, it says, “In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.” The idea of perfect, I think, is a finish line. It’s like he completed. When Jesus said, “It is finished,”(John 19:30) he said effectively, “It is perfected. It’s done. I’ve done everything you told me to do.” That’s the same idea here of being made perfect. He was not imperfect and now perfect. It was that he finished what was laid out for him to do.
Joel
Right. That makes total sense. Now, what about this word, “He became the source of eternal salvation”(Hebrews 5:9)? Salvation is listed all through. It’s God’s work in us. But the fact that the author of Hebrews used this word “eternal” seems significant in light of the passing shadows of the old covenant and the eternal security of the new covenant. Can you talk about that?
Andy
Eternal salvation, eternal life, it’s just a beautiful thing. I think what it points to also, as we look ahead into eternity, we look ahead into heaven: there won’t be any future fall. We’re not going to later fall into sin. We have an eternal salvation. Jesus is said here to be the source of, or the author of the origination of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Let me pick up on the word obey because I didn’t mention that back, as I probably should have done, in verse eight. He learned obedience from what he suffered. Jesus was a perfectly obedient Son in Gethsemane, but his whole life. And so we need to learn and imitate his obedience because by his obedience, he saves people who obey. That’s who he saves. And so the author is basically giving a warning, “If you want to be saved, you have to become obedient as Jesus.” Now, we’re not ever going to be perfectly obedient like Jesus was, but there is an essential obedience that God works in us that is a mark of saving faith. The works that James talks about in James 2, “Faith without works of obedience is dead.”(Paraphrase of James 2:17) And so he becomes the source of an eternal salvation for anyone who obeys, first of all the gospel, and then all the commands that flow from it.
Joel
Faith manifests in obedience. I even think of Paul and Romans talks about, “To bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations.”(Romans 1:5)
Andy
I think for us, we need to think about Gethsemane. I think we really should think about it every day, every moment almost. That we’re effectively saying to God, “Not my will, but yours be done.” Because our wills just run so contrary to the perfect plan of God, but that we would be willing to submit and do hard things to obey the commands of God. Jesus is a perfect example of that. He was made perfect by his suffering; he was made perfect by his obedience in the face of suffering. And we can say, we’ll never be called on to drink a cup like Jesus drank, the cup of God’s wrath, just wrath against sin. Thank God Jesus drank it for us. But we will drink from his cup, the cup of his suffering, like James and John were said to do, and we’re going to have to suffer in order to obey God. That’s the lifestyle the author to the Hebrews is commending for these Jewish professors of faith in Christ.
Joel
Amen. Do you have any closing comments on this passage?
Andy
I’m excited to go on to the section on Melchizedek. There’s a lot to learn. But we have to wait for basically the rest of chapter five and all of chapter six, a big digression as the author gives us all a bit of a stinging rebuke so that we keep making progress in our salvation.
Joel
Well, that was episode number 10 in the book of Hebrews. Please join us next time for episode 11, which is You Should Be Mature, But You Still Need Milk, going through Hebrews 5:11-6:3. If you would, please go to twojourneys.org and download the Bible study. It’s the book of Hebrews on the books/Bible studies page. We would encourage you to lead Bible studies in your workplace or in your neighborhood, and if these are helpful, use them to lead Bible studies. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. God bless you all.
The author describes Jesus’s perfect ministry as our great High Priest. He is able to deal gently with us sinners since He Himself was tempted, but He is better than an ordinary human priest because He never sinned, so He is mighty to defeat temptation. He did not exalt himself, but was appointed by God to the Priesthood. In his suffering, Jesus set an example for us, and by His meek, lowly attitude He was heard by God and saved through death (not “from death”). “Saved” meaning, “delivered from sin”. Thus Jesus is our eternal High Priest able to help us survive a life in the flesh on earth and bring us finally to heaven.
– Podcast Transcript –
Joel
Hi, welcome to the Two Journeys podcast. This is episode 10 in the book of Hebrews, going through Hebrews 5:1-10, Jesus the Great High Priest. I’m Joel Hartford and I’m here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, this section talks about the high priestly ministry of Jesus. It begins this discussion of why he’s so much greater than all the human priests that came before after the order of Aaron. Can you give us a brief overview of chapter five?
Andy
Absolutely. Hebrews 5 brings us for the first time, actually, end of chapter four on into chapter five, into the concept of Jesus as our high priest. Actually, it’s not developed anywhere else in the New Testament. We don’t see it. We have indications a little here or a little there. John 17, frequently called the high priestly prayer of Jesus, but he’s not said there to be a priest, he’s just praying for his people. And there’s other aspects in which you can see the priestly ministry. I think definitely the sense of a priest king was prepared for us. We’re going to talk about Melchizedek, but also in the book of Zechariah, we have a picture of the two becoming one, a priest king on the throne. But it’s only here in the New Testament overtly that we have Jesus depicted as our great high priest.
Joel
Well, for the sake of our audience, I’m going to read Hebrews 5:1-10,
For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins, just as he does for those of the people. And no one takes this honor on himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was. So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you’; as he also says in another place, ‘You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.’ In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
So my first question to you, Andy, in verses one through three, Jesus is introduced as this high priest offering sacrifices for sins. What is the author’s goal in introducing Jesus as priest?
Andy
Well, it’s important for us to understand what a priest does. In the Latin, pontifex means bridge builder. And so it’s the idea of a mediator, one who can go between God and man. Because of our sin, we need a figure like this. In the old covenant, in the law of Moses, set up through the sons of Aaron, the Aaronic priesthood, we could say the Levitical priestly ministry, a pattern or a type or shadow, which helps us to understand more fully what Jesus came to do. So we have this idea of Jesus being our high priest, and it’s got all of this old covenant backdrop.
Joel
So what does a priest actually do?
Andy
Well, the author here tells us that the priest has two duties. He represents the people in matters related to God, so that points toward a prayer ministry, intercession, and he offers gifts and sacrifices. I would add a third thing the author doesn’t mention here, which is very significant, and that is teaching the people the law of God. Malachi 2 brings this up very plainly that the priest had faithful instruction on his lips. It says in Leviticus 10:11 that the Aaronic priests were to teach the people the decrees, or the laws, of Moses. The author doesn’t get into that here, but we see that teaching ministry in Jesus perfected in Jesus.
I will say that there’s a flow here, and we don’t want to neglect seeing that, that as we jump in here in chapter five verse one, we’re actually picking up a train of thought from the end of chapter four where it says, “We have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God.”(Hebrews 4:14) And he’s urging us, “because we have such a great high priest who is not unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we have, yet was without sin. Therefore, because we have this kind of a priest, we should draw near to the throne of grace.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 4:15-16) And so he flows right into that by talking about the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood.
Joel
Since we’re not first century Jews steeped in Judaism and the Aaronic priesthood, can you just give us the backdrop of what was the Aaronic priesthood? Explain the laws that God set up at Mount Sinai, explaining the priests who were going to minister at the tent and then the temple, and why that was so important first for the people and how God was going to dwell with them in the land, but then foreshadowing Christ?
Andy
Well, the overall goal of God is to bring a sinful people from being relationally distant from himself right into his very presence. But in order to do that, he has to humble us and teach us that we are distant and we have no right to come into his presence. And so the old covenant is basically based on a prohibition, starts right away at the burning bush, what God said through the Angel of the Lord in the flames of the burning bush to Moses. The first thing he said to Moses is, “Do not come any closer. Take off your sandals, for the ground on which you’re standing is holy ground.”(Paraphrase of Exodus 3:5) The idea is that there’s an attraction, a magnetic attraction to God. We want to know God, we’re drawn to him, but we are told by him that he is holy and we’re not, and so we’re on the outside. And so he’s telling us in the old covenant again and again, “Do not come any closer.” The old covenant was given at Mount Sinai through Moses, the representative. And Moses was instructed to put a barrier around the base of Mount Sinai, some kind of a wall to keep the people from going up on the mountain, despite the fact that God came in trappings of terror, of an earthquake and a fire and a loud voice and just absolute terror.
The author later in Hebrews is going to say the sight was so overpowering that Moses said, “I’m trembling with fear.” But he still said, “Build a fence, lest the people come up the mountain.” You’d think they’d be running miles away the other direction. But he knew the people and he said, “They’re going to want to come. And my lesson to them, my message to them, is this far you may come and no farther.” And so he set up the tabernacle with its basically cloth walls. Eventually became the temple with its physical walls, but it’s the same thing, “You’re not allowed to come.” And the author’s going to make all this point clear. We’ve got the holy place and the most holy place, and only the high priest can enter the most holy place. The priest is on the outside representing the people, and he alone is allowed to come into the presence of God. The whole thing, the author tells us, the Holy Spirit was teaching us by that, teaching us that the way wasn’t yet open for us, that we’re on the outside looking in, that we’re sinners that need to be saved by grace. But it’s also a type and a shadow pointing toward the One who could open for us the new and living way into the presence of God, which is his body. The author is going to make this plain. We have this access now through Jesus. He is our great high priest.
“The overall goal of God is to bring a sinful people from being relationally distant from himself right into his very presence. But in order to do that, he has to humble us and teach us that we are distant and we have no right to come into his presence.”
Joel
I really appreciate you explaining that. I think that’s huge because a lot of us have a hard time understanding the Old Testament regulations and laws. When they’re opened for us and shown to foreshadow Christ and to show what God is teaching us, it really makes the Old Testament come alive. I appreciate that.
Andy
It does. It’s a beautiful thing to see.
Joel
Now, regarding the duties of the high priest, how is a high priest able to deal gently with sinners and be sympathetic to their plight?
Andy
Well, the author says the reason they can do so is because they themselves are sinners. If they’re humble and they’re godly men, they know that. They have to offer sacrifices for their own sins as well as for the sins of others. And so they should be able to deal gently. It’s only the hypocrites, and we saw that a lot in the New Testament with these that seem to deny that they had any sins, the scribes and the Pharisees that Jesus is always dealing with, because they’re blind to their own sinfulness. But a genuine, softhearted, humble priest, a good priest, would recognize his own sinfulness; he would understand it and recognize it better than anyone else’s sinfulness. The author says that these old covenant priests, these Levitical priests from the sons of Aaron, were able to deal gently with sinners because they themselves were sinners.
Joel
Now, in verse three, is Jesus being compared or contrasted with the human high priest? I should say merely human because Jesus is also a human, he’s fully human-
Andy
He’s definitely human.
Joel
-But he’s more than that.
Andy
That’s a good question. Those two words compare and contrast. He is being compared, definitely. They are types and shadows. He’s the fulfillment, but there’s a definite contrasting too because, “He was tempted in every way, but was without sin.”(Paraphrase of Hebrews 4:15) That’s been clearly established. He never needed to offer sacrifice for His own sins. And frankly, if he had had to do so, he could not have represented us because he would’ve been busy offering sacrifice for his own sins. That’s why Jesus is set apart from them. He is holy and they’re not, and so he is able to offer once for all time his own body and blood as a final sacrifice. So definitely this is a contrast. He is different than those Levitical priests were.
Joel
The superiority of him as a priest, and we see that later in, I think, chapter seven where it talks about how in his calling, he’s made priest by an oath. They’re made priest by genealogy and they just keep dying, but he lives forever. But I know we’re getting ahead of ourselves.
Andy
Chapter seven, we’ll get to there at some point.
Joel
Now, in Hebrews 5:4, it says, “No one takes this honor on himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was.” What is the significance of the fact that it is God who calls the priest and you’re not allowed to bestow that honor on yourself?
Andy
Sure. Actually, we have a lot of historical background on this. He made it very plain what the job of the Levites was going to be concerning the tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant. There were different tasks, and there were sons of Levi that had different roles to play. But specifically, the sons of Aaron were selected to be the high priest who would offer the sacrifice on the mercy seat, on the atonement cover on the top of the Ark of the Covenant. He was the only one permitted to go into the Holy of Holies, those laws, those rules and regulations, were all given by God. Aaron didn’t say one day, “I’d like to be a priest. Moses, what can you do? You’re close to God. Make it happen for me.” It was just something that wasn’t even on his radar screen, perhaps, didn’t fully understand. God set the whole thing up. The animal sacrificial system didn’t even exist. In the midst of learning about the tabernacle with its length of cloths and its standards and stanchions and posts and all that and cross members, along with that, there are the instructions in the book of Exodus about the priest, and his garments and his turban and jewels on his breastplate and all of these things. God thought all this up, and then he called Aaron to serve as the first priest.
The point is: you can’t take this honor on yourself. God wouldn’t recognize you. We have some examples of individuals who sinfully, boldly acted in this regard, and they paid for it big time. For example, Nadab and Abihu, who took it upon themselves to offer unauthorized fire to God, a sacrifice that God did not command. And then a clear example with Uzziah, who was from the line of Judah, he was a king, but he tried to go in and offer incense to God. The priest courageously confronted him and said, “It’s not lawful for you to be here.” The law commanded that the priests be taken from the sons of Aaron, and the kingly line, as the authors going to make clear later, came from the descendants of David, Judah. That was cut off from the Davidic line. And so you can’t just up and do this. You can’t take it on yourself to come into the presence of a holy God. God has to open the way. Specifically, the honor of being a high priest, God the Father had to give it to Jesus.
Joel
Now, if you’d allow me to just take a slight digression from the honor of being the priest to just honor in general. We tend to want to bestow honor on ourselves. This is exactly the opposite, though, of what the Son of God did. I remember in John 8, they accused Jesus of having a demon and being a Samaritan. He says, “I do not seek my glory, but it is my Father-“(Paraphrase of John 8:50)
Andy
“There is One who seeks-”(John 8:50)
Joel
Yeah, “There is one who seeks and judges,”(Paraphrase of John 8:50) just that idea that if we choose not to honor ourselves and humble ourselves, that God will honor us.
Andy
“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”(James 4:6) He exalts those that are humble. And Jesus, no one has ever humbled himself more than Jesus. And therefore, God exalted Him to the highest place. So when it comes to this issue of the priesthood, Jesus didn’t take it on himself to be priest. You’d think if anybody ever could have said, “Look, I’m the Son of God. I’m the only begotten Son of God. I have the right to be priest.” But he didn’t do that. That wasn’t his mentality at all. He did not take on himself the glory of being a high priest. Along with this, we see again and again that Jesus said, “Look, I do nothing apart from the will of the Father. I don’t do anything. I don’t speak a word except the Father told me to say it. I don’t turn stones into bread because the Father didn’t tell me to do that. I don’t throw myself out the pinnacle of the temple. The Father didn’t tell me to do that. I don’t do anything except at the mouth of God. What God tells me to do, I do. So the words I speak are not my own. They belong to God who sent me. I came down from heaven not to do my own will, but to do the will of him who sent me. I don’t do anything apart from God.” So Jesus is very humble here and does not take on Himself the glory of being a high priest.
Joel
Well, in your answer, you nearly quoted Hebrews 5:5 where it says, “So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made high priest, but was appointed.” And then instead of saying appointed by God or appointed by the Father, he says, “But was appointed by him who said to him,” and then he quotes Psalm 2:7 again, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you.” Then he adds another quote on top of that, “You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.”(Hebrews 5:6) This is from Psalm 110. How do these quotes of saying that it is written of Jesus, how does this show that Jesus was appointed by God to be high priest?
Andy
Well, first we have to establish here his humanity. Jesus was declared to be a Son at his incarnation and also at his resurrection. And so at these two key moments, both of them are linked to him being becoming flesh, the Word becoming flesh. He could not have been our mediator; he could not have been our priest, except that he was human. And so he had to be able to, like Job said, “If only there was someone who could lay a hand upon us both.”(Paraphrase of Job 9:33) Jesus is that bridge builder, that mediator. The author is, in a very complex and marvelous way here, quoting, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you,”(Psalm 2:7) linking it to his status as a human being. But also, “You are my Son.” So there’s a sense that, let’s marvel in this, that he has the Father’s ear, and that everything that he asks his father for, he’ll get. You want someone like that approaching the throne and interceding for us because He’s going to get everything he asks for. So Jesus did not take the glory on himself of being a high priest, but God said to him, “You are my Son. Today I have begotten you,” or become your Father. “I prepared a body for you. I prepared a human body for you so that you could be a priest and you could offer that body as a sacrifice.”
Joel
Can you talk about him being designated a priest after the order of Melchizedek from Psalm 110?
Andy
Sure. This is a mysterious thing that happens, just pops up in the Genesis account. Genesis 14, I believe. This mysterious figure, Melchizedek, we don’t need to go into detail right now because the author stops himself right in the middle of this discussion in a moment at the end of chapter five, which I think we’ll discuss next time, our next podcast. But he says, “I have a lot more to say about Melchizedek, but I got to dress you guys down first. I got to do some rebuking. I got to slap you around a little bit because you’re so immature and you can’t handle this advanced teaching.” But the Melchizedek teaching is advanced teaching. He’s going to go into great detail in chapter seven about it, so we’ll refrain a bit, but I’ll give a little preview. This individual pops up in Genesis 14, and then you don’t hear anything more about him at all. Nothing until David writes Psalm 110, “The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet,'”(Psalm 110:1) a Messianic psalm. And in that same psalm, he says, “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: ‘You are a priest of forever in the order of Melchizedek.’”(Psalm 110:4) It just comes up out of nowhere, and he says this is the priesthood of Jesus. “You are my Son and this is the honor I have for you.” So again, there’s much more to say and he will say in chapter seven.
Joel
Well, Two Journeys podcast listeners, we don’t think you are too immature to learn about Melchizedek, but we’re just following the flow of the text.
Andy
Following the text.
Joel
We think you’re ready, but we’ll have to wait until chapter seven. Now, getting into Hebrews 5:7, “In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.” This must speak of Gethsemane, right?
Andy
I think so. I think he’s talking about Gethsemane, and just the passion and the power and the intimacy of Jesus’ prayer life. This is perfect prayer. And so again, big picture, what the author is doing… And we’ve said this many other times on these podcasts, but let me say it again. What’s going on is the author is addressing Jewish people who had made a profession of faith in Christ, but who are under intense pressure to turn their backs on Jesus and go back to old covenant Judaism. Well, what are they going back to? Well, they’re going back to the animal sacrificial system and back to the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood. And what the author’s going to do here is say that Jesus is superior to that. He’s a better priest. He is called by God to be his Son, but also to be a priest in the order of Melchizedek, which is a better priesthood, as he’s going to argue. So this is a better priestly ministry.
But one of the things priests do is they intercede for you. And so in the consummation of the Melchizedek argument in chapter seven, the pinnacle of it is Hebrew 7:25, that Jesus ever lives to intercede for us. And how does he pray? He prays like he prayed in Gethsemane. He prays for your soul with that kind of passion and power. And the most important thing is that he’s heard. The Lord hears him. And that he can know that he has whatever he asks on our behalf. You want someone like this praying for you. The author is referring to Jesus’s time on earth, the time of his physical earthly ministry. And during his time on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions, it says, fervently or passionately crying out, even with tears, and he offered them up to God. So let’s say he at least did that in Gethsemane. He might’ve done that other times because Jesus had a very active prayer life.
Joel
I remember being shocked, I think it’s in Luke when he goes to pick his disciples, and it says he spent all night on the mountain in prayer. My jaw just dropped. I couldn’t believe it.
Andy
You’d think if anybody could have just made the decision on his own with his own wisdom, no one was wiser than Jesus. But Jesus is constantly modeling: “I don’t do anything apart from the Father.”(Paraphrase of John 5:19) He’s training us because we’re so sinfully, wretchedly, independent. And so Jesus gives us this picture of a Son going to his Father, crying out, “Abba, Father. If it is possible, let this cup be taken from me,”(Paraphrase of Mark 14:36) speaking of Gethsemane. He’s there on the ground, and great drops of blood are forming on his brow and they’re dripping to the ground because of the intensity and the agony with which he poured out his soul. One Puritan writer said, “Painted fire is no fire at all, and neither are cold prayers real prayers.” Sometimes our prayers are like painted fire. There’s nothing to it, there’s no passion, there’s no heart. But that’s not the way it is with Jesus. He passionately, fervently prayed to his father. And the intimacy, “Abba, Father, all things are possible with you. If it is possible, let this cup be taken from me.” And in this way, you see the kind of intensity and intimacy that Jesus will use for you. That’s where we’re going. In Hebrews 7:25, you get this kind of intercessory prayer ministry on your behalf.
Joel
That’s beautiful. Now, one more question regarding verse seven. It says he prays, “To him who was able to save him from death.”(Hebrews 5:7) But Jesus wasn’t saved from death. We do know he was, of course, resurrected on the third day, but he did experience death. So what does this teach us about unanswered prayers?
Andy
Well, God the Father was able to do anything. Jesus said it, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Is it possible that I would not die?” Actually, nothing could have been more possible than that. Jesus, in him was life. If anyone ever would’ve lived forever, it would’ve been Jesus. So it’s actually expected that he would not die. So the idea is certainly he was able to save Jesus from death. But at one level, it was impossible, because here’s the thing. Jesus says, “Abba, Father, all things are possible. Is it possible,” he said, basically asking a question, “Is it possible for me not to drink this cup?” Though the Father never says anything in the Gethsemane account, Jesus knows he has his answer, “It’s not possible. So it is not possible if, if you’re going to save the sons of Abraham, the ones that you came into the world to save, if you’re going to save them, you must die.” So there is no other way. And then effectively, a different question comes, but it’s from the Father to the Son. “If it’s not possible, will you do it? Will you drink this cup I’m handing to you?” And Jesus effectively says yes. “Not my will, but yours be done.” That’s incredible, the submission, the piety, the reverent fear that the author mentions here. He heard Jesus’s prayer. So yeah, it was possible for the Father to save Jesus from death. He was the only one that could. Honestly, think of it this way. Once Judas left and Jesus went to Gethsemane, where Judas knew he would go, the only thing that could deliver Jesus from 600 Roman soldiers is supernatural power. Just in and of himself, he’s done. He’s a dead man. So he knew the only one who could save him from death at that point was the Father, and the Father said no.
Joel
I remember you talking, I think when you were preaching through Matthew, that that was possibly the most courageous moment in history for any human being, was Jesus-
Andy
Well, I think we’re going to give the top honor of all godly virtue to Jesus in every regard. We would have to say his whole life was one of courage. Every day, he exhibited courage. But this is the pinnacle. I wouldn’t say it ended once he got up from his prayer and walked out and presented himself, like in John’s gospel, and say, “Whom are you seeking?” “Jesus of Nazareth.” And he says, “I am,” and they arrest him. He’s courageous all the way through, but this is such a clear display of courage to be willing to drink that cup.
Joel
Sorry, I did have one more on verse seven. It says, “He was heard because of his reverence.”(Hebrews 5:7) Why this emphasis on his reverence?
Andy
Well, he knew better than we do who it is he’s talking to. We forget who we’re talking to. We have these rote prayers, these trite prayers. We stumble into God’s presence, forgetting who we’re talking to. Jesus never lost sight of the infinite majesty of his heavenly Father. He had really a godly fear here. It’s hard to even imagine, but that’s the word that the author uses here, “He was heard because of his fear.”(Hebrews 5:7) Other translations have piety, but it all has to do with a godly submission and fear in relation to the Creator God, the Ruler God. And so that demeanor, that attitude, is essential to him being pleasing to God. God is pleased with that kind of godly submission, with that kind of fear, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”(Proverbs 9:10) Jesus perfectly displayed that. He was heard because of it. It was on the basis of his demeanor, on the basis of his piety, his godliness, God the Father welcomed him and heard him.
“We forget who we’re talking to. We have these rote prayers, these trite prayers. We stumble into God’s presence forgetting who we’re talking to. Jesus never lost sight of the infinite majesty of his heavenly Father.”
Joel
Now, how did he learn obedience through what he suffered? And then it says, “Being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation.”(Hebrews 5:9) So one, how did he learn obedience? And how did he, quote, “Being made perfect,” how was he made perfect?
Andy
These are great, great questions. We should never imagine at any moment that there was any moral imperfection in Jesus, that he could be improved in terms of his holiness or improved in terms of his purity. None of that’s possible. Jesus was perfect all the way through. However, he did learn. Honestly, when we’re looking at the mystery of the incarnation, it’s just beyond us to comprehend how Jesus could be God and human at the same time. It’s just going to cause the circuit breakers to blow in our minds. And so here, you have the omnipotent God in the form of a helpless baby wrapped up in swaddling clothes. How is that possible? Or you have the omniscient God learning things as a toddler through Joseph and Mary. Jesus learned wisdom and grew up. He grew in wisdom. That meant he grew more and more in knowledge of the word of God and other things. That’s just the mystery of the incarnation. Once you accept that and you see that going on, then you say, “Okay, in his humanity, he was able to learn things. In his deity, he never learned anything and never will.” Omniscience can’t be improved on. But in his humanity, he learned and he grew and developed. But I think this is more speaking of his office as our mediator and as our high priest. He was made perfect, or I would think maybe a better concept here would be qualified. He was qualified to be our Savior by his death on the cross, let’s say. If he hadn’t died on the cross, he would not be qualified to be our Savior.
In the same way, he was qualified to be our high priest by suffering things we suffered. So he had to do it by experience. The author’s saying, it seems, that in order to be a merciful and faithful high priest, he had to be able to look us in the eye and say, “I know exactly how you feel. I went through it myself.” And so we can say, “Yes, You did. You experienced hunger. You experienced thirst. You experience rejection from sinful people. You experienced pain. You experienced death. You experienced temptation. So you are qualified, or perfected, in your office as our great high priest, our mediator, by having lived through those experiences.”
The author says the same thing back in Hebrews 2:10, it says, “In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.” The idea of perfect, I think, is a finish line. It’s like he completed. When Jesus said, “It is finished,”(John 19:30) he said effectively, “It is perfected. It’s done. I’ve done everything you told me to do.” That’s the same idea here of being made perfect. He was not imperfect and now perfect. It was that he finished what was laid out for him to do.
Joel
Right. That makes total sense. Now, what about this word, “He became the source of eternal salvation”(Hebrews 5:9)? Salvation is listed all through. It’s God’s work in us. But the fact that the author of Hebrews used this word “eternal” seems significant in light of the passing shadows of the old covenant and the eternal security of the new covenant. Can you talk about that?
Andy
Eternal salvation, eternal life, it’s just a beautiful thing. I think what it points to also, as we look ahead into eternity, we look ahead into heaven: there won’t be any future fall. We’re not going to later fall into sin. We have an eternal salvation. Jesus is said here to be the source of, or the author of the origination of eternal salvation for those who obey him. Let me pick up on the word obey because I didn’t mention that back, as I probably should have done, in verse eight. He learned obedience from what he suffered. Jesus was a perfectly obedient Son in Gethsemane, but his whole life. And so we need to learn and imitate his obedience because by his obedience, he saves people who obey. That’s who he saves. And so the author is basically giving a warning, “If you want to be saved, you have to become obedient as Jesus.” Now, we’re not ever going to be perfectly obedient like Jesus was, but there is an essential obedience that God works in us that is a mark of saving faith. The works that James talks about in James 2, “Faith without works of obedience is dead.”(Paraphrase of James 2:17) And so he becomes the source of an eternal salvation for anyone who obeys, first of all the gospel, and then all the commands that flow from it.
Joel
Faith manifests in obedience. I even think of Paul and Romans talks about, “To bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations.”(Romans 1:5)
Andy
I think for us, we need to think about Gethsemane. I think we really should think about it every day, every moment almost. That we’re effectively saying to God, “Not my will, but yours be done.” Because our wills just run so contrary to the perfect plan of God, but that we would be willing to submit and do hard things to obey the commands of God. Jesus is a perfect example of that. He was made perfect by his suffering; he was made perfect by his obedience in the face of suffering. And we can say, we’ll never be called on to drink a cup like Jesus drank, the cup of God’s wrath, just wrath against sin. Thank God Jesus drank it for us. But we will drink from his cup, the cup of his suffering, like James and John were said to do, and we’re going to have to suffer in order to obey God. That’s the lifestyle the author to the Hebrews is commending for these Jewish professors of faith in Christ.
Joel
Amen. Do you have any closing comments on this passage?
Andy
I’m excited to go on to the section on Melchizedek. There’s a lot to learn. But we have to wait for basically the rest of chapter five and all of chapter six, a big digression as the author gives us all a bit of a stinging rebuke so that we keep making progress in our salvation.
Joel
Well, that was episode number 10 in the book of Hebrews. Please join us next time for episode 11, which is You Should Be Mature, But You Still Need Milk, going through Hebrews 5:11-6:3. If you would, please go to twojourneys.org and download the Bible study. It’s the book of Hebrews on the books/Bible studies page. We would encourage you to lead Bible studies in your workplace or in your neighborhood, and if these are helpful, use them to lead Bible studies. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast. God bless you all.
