1 Corinthians Episode 6: Expelling Immoral People Essential to Church Purity

In this episode, Andy and Wes talk about church discipline in light of Paul's guidance to the church in Corinth.

- Podcast Transcript - 

Wes

Welcome to the Two Journeys Bible Study podcast. This podcast is just one of the many resources available to you for free from Two Journeys Ministry. If you're interested in learning more, just head over to two journeys.org. Now, on to today's episode.

This is episode six in our 1 Corinthians Bible study podcast. This episode is entitled Expelling Immoral People Essential to Church Purity, where we'll discuss 1 Corinthians 5:1-13. I'm Wes Treadway and I'm here with Pastor Andy Davis. Andy, what are we going to see in these verses that we're looking at today?

Andy

Well, this is an absolutely vital chapter on the issue of church discipline. Every healthy church, in order to maintain its health, has to be willing to expel unrepentant or flagrantly immoral people from its membership and so retain its reputation in the eyes of the world. It is commanded that we do it, and 1 Corinthians 5 is the clearest chapter on it. So, in this chapter, we're going to see not just that it needs to be done, but why it needs to be done. Paul walks through all of that, so this is a pretty vital chapter for us.

Wes                                                                                                                      

Well, let me go ahead and read 1 Corinthians 5 as we begin:

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb has been sacrificed. Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now, I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard or swindler-not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

Andy, what's the significance of the fact that the immorality Paul is addressing here doesn't even occur among the pagans and the fact that this case seems widely known in the community?

Andy

Yeah, I think that points to one of the reasons that churches need to practice biblical church discipline and that is the reputation of the church in the community. The church should be salt and light, a city on a hill which cannot be hidden, and essential to it is the purity of the people. "Sanctify them," Jesus said, "By the truth. Your word is truth." We are to be set apart unto God as holy, as he says even in these Corinthian epistles. He says, "Come out from her and be separate, says the Lord," (her being Babylon, the city of Babylon, so it's a symbol of the world). We are to be called out from the world, called out from wickedness into a life of holiness. And so, this sin, this scandalous sin was so shocking that even Gentiles knew you don't do this.

And so therefore, it points to one of two reasons, I think, two categories that churches need to practice church discipline. One of them is in this chapter, which is scandalous sins, whether the person seems to repent or not, I believe that. I think that you can excommunicate someone and then observe their life, and if they say, "I repent, I repent, I'm sorry for what I did." Live it out. Live it out for a period of time. Live out a brokenness and a repentance and then the person can get accepted back in, because it's going to take a long time to repair the reputation. Just saying in an afternoon or an evening, "I'm sorry, we didn't mean it, et cetera," that's not enough.

And the other would be in Matthew 18 where there's a stubborn defiance. Despite many efforts to bring the person to repentance, they just dig in their heels and will not repent, then you excommunicate that person. These are two categories. This is of that first category, which is great scandalous sins that bring the reputation of the entire church into disrepute.

Wes

Andy, this may be a silly question, but why does it matter what the community thinks about the holiness of a church?

Andy

One of the reasons a local church has been planted there, as I hinted from the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5, is that we are to be a city on a hill. We are a light up on a lamp stand that cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and puts it under a bowl. Instead, he puts it on a stand. It gives light to everyone in the house. Jesus said, "You are the light of the world," so the light is purity, it's holiness, it's righteousness. The scripture says in 1 John 1:5-6, "...God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth." And so therefore, our reputation in the community must be of a church that is pursuing holiness. We're zealous for holiness. We're not claiming to be perfect, but we are yearning to be pure and holy, and that's the striving.

If you have unrepentant, flagrant sin in your midst, and you don't deal with it, then there goes your reputation. And so to what then are you calling the pagans? To what are you calling them? What are they supposed to leave? You're just like them, and they're just like you. And so therefore, it is very important that the church maintains a reputation for spirituality, for holiness, and purity.

Also, I would say based on John 17, for unity and love. "By this, will all men know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another." He says that plainly. And then in John 17, "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me." And so, our unity, our love, our purity, these are essential to our witness.

Wes

In verse two, Paul expresses his astonishment at the arrogance displayed by the Corinthian church in this case. In what ways do you think the Corinthian church was exhibiting arrogance, and what attitude did Paul want the church to exhibit in this case instead of pride?

Andy

Yeah, I don't know that they were specifically prideful or arrogant about this case of immorality. My guess is he's saying, "You're just generally arrogant." So, he's going to bump into this again and again. They're very prideful people. They're very proud of their spiritual gifts. They've been blessed by every spiritual gift that they could have. They're blessed in every way, but they tended to be arrogant and prideful. Paul would point to this, say, "You have no reason to be proud. Look at what's going on in the midst of you." So, he's actually quite stunned at their level of arrogance. This should have brought them shame. There is a healthy shame in connection with sin, and they should have been ashamed that they hadn't dealt with this sooner.

Wes

How is the open display of grief or shame essential to the outcome of church discipline? What action does Paul clearly want them to take and why?

Andy

So, the word grief I think is potent here, and I think he says in another place, "Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God with whom you are sealed for the day of redemption." And so, the Holy Spirit can show powerful emotions over us, including grief. We use the word grief usually connected with death, and so the idea is extreme mourning. When we sin, we grieve the Holy Spirit. If we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit's task is to bring us to the same level of grief that he feels over the sin, and so it is appropriate to grieve over sin. I think that's what, "Blessed are those who mourn," means, because if you look at the Beatitudes, the beginning of the Sermon of the Mount, they seem to be of the spiritual state required in an individual to go to heaven, to have eternal life.

"Blessed are the spiritual beggars for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Poor in spirit is the usual translation, but it's spiritual beggars. And, "Blessed are the meek," those who are lowly. They're not prideful, they're not arrogant, for, "they will inherit the earth." And then he says, "Blessed are those who mourn for they'll be comforted." The mourning there is not like mourning over someone who died in your family. The mourning is mourning over sin, and so I think there's a brokenness and a grief over sin. The very next Beatitude is, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they'll be filled." So fundamentally, I think this is a mourning over sin. It's appropriate for Christians to mourn over their own sin, but here, it's corporate mourning. They're supposed to be mourning over this individual sin. They should be grieved over this sin.

Wes

What's the significance of Paul saying, "I am present in spirit, and I have already pronounced judgment," in verse three?

Andy

Yeah, that was a great question. I want to say one more thing about the grief. Churches that practice church discipline should do so in that spirit of brokenness and grief also, not a spirit of superiority over the one being disciplined. You should realize there's no difference between me and you. I haven't committed that sin you have, but I'm a sinner like you are, and I'm grieved over where you're at. There's a brokenness and a weeping over it. That changes the whole demeanor, the whole attitude that the church has. So, in terms of Paul saying, "I'm with you in spirit," there is that oneness in the spirit, that universal body of Christ, and I'm part of you because we're all part of the same body. And so, you need to deal with this tumor, you need to deal with this sin because I'm part of the body of Christ.

Also, he's an apostle. He's the one who planted that church, so he has a special connection with them. He says, "I'm with you. I'm there with you." Beyond that, there's also a supernatural spiritual knowledge that prophets and apostles had. I don't know if you remember that story about Elisha healing the leper, Naaman, and Naaman offered to pay him, and he refused. And Naaman went back to his home country of Syria, and Elisha's servant, Gehazi, went after the guy and said, "Hey, look." He tried to get some money off him, and he did. He got some silver and some changes of clothes and all that. And he goes back and stashes it in his room and then goes back and stands in front of Elisha, the prophet.

And I always picture Elijah doing something, not really looking at him over his shoulder saying, "Where did you go, Gehazi?" "Oh, I didn't go anywhere." He said, "Was not my spirit with you when Naaman got down out of that chariot? I was with you the whole time, and now, his leprosy is going to cling to you." That's eerie, but that's a prophet. And so, Paul's saying, "I have a supernatural spiritual connection with you as the apostle that planted you." And concerning the statement that he made, "And I've already passed judgment on him," this is a court trial basically. This is an internal ecclesiastical court trial that he's calling the church to do, to pass judgment. Now, people stumble over this. They say, "The Bible says judge not, lest you be judged," but we don't pit one scripture against another. There is a sense in which it's absolutely wrong for us to judge, for Jesus says, "In the same way you judge others, you'll be judged, and with the measure you use will be measured to you."

But Jesus didn't mean do not evaluate another person, because he said, "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you like wolves in sheep's clothing." So, you're supposed to judge whether somebody's a wolf in a sheep's clothing. Jesus is not saying absolutely there's no human judgment going on. And so, the idea here is churches are under an obligation to deal with unrepentant or scandalous sin, and there is a sense of a court trial. And if the person did it, then the appropriate steps need to be taken. It's time to pass judgment on that individual. He's specifically calling on the church to pass judgment on him.

Wes

In verses four and five, Paul lays out both a method as well as a motive for pursuing church discipline. What other aspects of church discipline does Paul describe in verses four and five? And why must the whole church act when everyone is assembled?

Andy

All right. Well, let me take the last part first. Churches, when it's done by the church, not by the pastor or the elders or the deacons or something like that-it's got to be done by the whole church. Now, I'm a Baptist. I believe in Baptist church polity in which the final highest authority, ecclesiastical authority in a local church is the church itself, not the elders, et cetera - the church. That's what congregationalism is. And the clearest proof there is of congregationalism are these church discipline cases. Matthew 18, Jesus, the final step is, tell it to the church. And so, churches are the ones that need to act. Now, here are the procedures that Paul gives. "When you're assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus, and I'm with you in spirit, and the Lord Jesus, the power of the Lord Jesus is present by the power of the Holy Spirit," he says, "Hand this man over to Satan." So, we'll get to that phrase, but that is excommunicate him. Put him out in the world, put him out into Satan's world. That's what it means, I think.

But that's what it is. It's got to be done by the church. He's writing this epistle to the whole church, not specifically to the leaders of the church but to the church. They have a duty to act. It is their job to do this work. And so they're assembled; it has to be done publicly. Now, practically speaking, this says a couple of things. First of all, when a church leader, a pastor let's say, goes to a church that hasn't done church discipline in years, if ever, and he knows that that church needs to get healthy and needs to deal with... there might even be some specific discipline cases waiting. There might be some cases of cohabitation, some fornication going on, or there could be some other things, clear biblical principles that are being violated, but he can't act.

It won't happen anyway. The church won't do its duty. They're not ready to do its duty, and he'll just end up disciplining himself out of that church. They'll vote them out, they'll get rid of him, because they're not ready. So, I think then in a case like that, keep in mind what Jesus said, "I have much to say to you, more than you can now bear." So, the church can't bear it yet. Build the church up, get it ready to do its job. It'd be like an army that hasn't been trained yet and needs to be trained so it can fight well. It's going to take time, so be patient. And so fundamentally, the issue here is their task is something that they have to do together, and the church leader has to get them ready to do it.

Wes

Now, Andy, you mentioned this phrase just a moment ago, but in verse five, it says that they are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. What is Paul describing here and what happens at this point in church discipline?

Andy

Right. So, I hinted at my interpretation of it. The "Hand the man over to Satan," is simply another way of saying excommunicate him. In what sense though is excommunication handing a man over to Satan? Jesus' phrase is quite different, but I think we can harmonize it. Treat this man as you would a pagan or a tax collector. So, look on him as an outsider. Look on him as quite possibly an unconverted man. So, in what sense then is he handed over to Satan? It's basically, he's yours, all right? You own him. That's what he's saying. Now, think about when Jesus talked about exorcism when he was driving out demons. He said, "When a strong man fully armed guards his possessions in his house, everything he owns is safe. But when someone stronger than him overpowers him and takes away the armor in which he trusted and plunders his house, that's what this exorcism is like."

Jesus is the one stronger than the strong man- the strong man is Satan- and he's driving out his demons, is taking plunder from him. He's saving an individual. All right, well, if you reverse that whole thing around, hand the man over to Satan means he's really saying that he belongs to Satan. He's in Satan's kingdom, or again, Colossians says, "He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the beloved son." When you hand the man over to Satan, you're saying, "No, you're still in the kingdom of darkness."

Another statement is in 1 John, it says, "The whole world lies in the power of the evil one." So, imagine Corinth. Paul comes. It's a dark city, a dark place. Everyone's in darkness, the people walking in darkness. Then he preaches the gospel. The people walking in darkness have seen a great light. That great light is Christ. Some come out of the darkness into light. There's this colony of light, this enclave of heaven in the midst of a dark, wicked pagan city, all right? The church is that. The church is that light shining in a dark place. "Hand the man over to Satan," is put him back out into the darkness. That's where he is.

"There's this colony of light, this enclave of heaven in the midst of a dark, wicked pagan city, all right? The church is that. The church is that light shining in a dark place."

Wes

Now, it does seem that Paul holds out hope that this individual might yet repent and be saved, but if the person never repents, how is the church discipline still worth doing?

Andy

Yeah, he says, "Hand this man over to Satan so that his flesh may be destroyed," or his body may be destroyed, "And his spirit saved in the day of the Lord." The second is easier for me to interpret than the first. His spirit saved in the day of the Lord. The day of the Lord is judgment day. Spirit saved means you go to heaven, not hell. So, this discipline is hopefully to bring about the salvation of the individual. I would say it's the number one warning shot that could ever happen in your life, right across the bow of your life, or it's the number one wakeup call that could ever come. A church thinks you are likely to be unconverted. You should do everything you can to make your calling and election sure at that moment because you don't want to go to hell.

And so, the tendency would be to be prideful and write off all Christians, and say they're wrong and all that. Don't do that. Instead, take it very, very seriously. So, the idea would be ultimately that you would be saved. Now, the flesh destroyed. It could be a matter of sickness. Hand the man over to Satan so that you can get sick. You can be wracked with guilt and terrible feelings and just have a horrible time and then want to come back into the light and repent and make it right, so that's the point. The point is ultimately the salvation of the individual. So, here's the thing. We're starting to stack up, as we walk through 1 Corinthians 5, the reasons why we do church discipline. We've got two of them so far - the reputation of the church in the community and the salvation of the sinner, but there's others.

Wes

Why does Paul return to their boasting in verse six? And what does the analogy of the yeast permeating the whole batch of dough teach us about another motive for church discipline?

Andy

Right, so that immediately is that next motive, and the reason that we do church discipline is because a little yeast leavens the whole lump or spreads through the whole batch of dough. It is that sin permeates, sin spreads like a cancer, like a plague. And so, if this scandalous sexual sin, and we didn't say what it was, but it says a man has his father's wife, so a man is having sexual relations with his stepmother probably. He would've just said your mother, which would be just sickening, but this was his stepmother, and it's just sinful, and you can't be a member of the church doing that. So fundamentally, what he's saying here is if you don't deal with that sexual sin, you're going to start getting some copycats that are going to start spreading. You could imagine if the church doesn't deal properly with let's say, issues of divorce or other issues, it's going to start to spread and that's the danger.

So, the third reason that we give here for church discipline is to protect the church from sin spreading throughout the entire church. And so, we need to protect the rest of the church, and it does have that effect. You look at the case of Ananias and Sapphira, which is a case of direct church discipline by Almighty God, which he struck them dead for lying. There was a fear that came over the entire church, and that has an effect of holiness. So, one of the reasons then is that the guilt and the wickedness and sin would not spread through the whole church.

Now, back to the first question you asked, their boasting is not good. He's like, "Look, you should be humble. You should realize..." One of the humility aspects here, their boasting is they're underestimating the danger they're in. If they don't deal with the sin, they might be susceptible. "Oh, no, no, no, that would never happen to me." You've got to be careful, so stop being arrogant. Fear sin and deal with it.

Wes

In verse seven, Paul reaches for the Jewish Passover ritual of cleansing the household once a year of all yeast. What analogy does he make to the Corinthian church, and how is that analogy relevant to the issue of the purity of the church and Christ's sacrifice for it as we've just been discussing?

Andy

Well, the night of the Passover, they ate unleavened bread. They didn't have time for the bread to rise, and so also, there was a later command in the law of Moses to get rid of all the yeast from the house. And there could have been a hygienic aspect of that because the idea is that you're making leavened bread, and you get the yeast from the last lump. You break off a little piece, and it's got the yeast in it, the active yeast, and then you make the loaf and cook it and eat it. But you have this little piece that's broken off and you mix that in, and right before you cook the next loaf, you break off that piece, and it just keeps going on. So, there's yeast in there that's like a year old. Yeah, let's see if we can clean the thing out.

And so, it could have been a hygienic issue, but there's a clear command to get rid of all the yeast in the house, and they would search throughout the house and try to find any yeast they could and get rid of it. Paul picks up on this as a picture of the house of the Lord, the church, being cleansed from all sin and wickedness.

Wes

Andy, at the end of verse seven, Paul speaks of Christ, our Passover lamb having been sacrificed. Is he just connecting with this Passover imagery or is there more here that Paul wants us to have in mind as we think about Christ as the Passover lamb?

Andy

Yeah, I think it's important that we understand how the prophetic foundation of Christ's work was laid in the cycle of festivals. There were three festivals three times a year. The Jewish men had to assemble to the one place that God chose where all of Israel would worship. The first was Passover or called the feast of unleavened bread, and Christ is the Passover lamb, and he fulfilled that picture by his death on the cross. He was the Passover lamb. As you remember, the lamb was sacrificed. And its blood painted on the doorposts and lentils of the Jewish people while they were still in bondage, right before the 10th and dreadful plague on the firstborn, to save them from being killed as well because they deserved it too. But the Passover lamb, the blood, represents Christ. Jesus is the fulfillment of that. That has been fulfilled now.

The second feast is the feast of Pentecost, the feast of first fruits, and the Jews were to gather together and celebrate the beginning of the harvest, the first fruits of the ingathering, coming in, or the first fruits of the harvest. That also has been fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.

The third and final is the feast of, I think called, ingathering. It's the end of the harvest when everything has been gathered. And that has not yet been fulfilled, and that's the end of the gospel being spread to the ends of the earth. And so, I think Paul wants these gentile Christians to understand the Jewish heritage of their faith and how prophetically laid out it was, but now he's extending it to the issue of holiness, which I think we're going to talk about now again one more time with this issue of yeast.

Wes

Paul contrasts leaven, malice, and evil with unleavened bread, sincerity, and truth in verse eight. What does that analogy teach us about the church and holiness as you just said?

Andy

Right. In this case, it's very clear that leaven or yeast is a picture of evil, and it spreads. So, in this case, the yeast of malice and wickedness, it has the power to spread. So, while these two words, malice, and wickedness, may be not overtly connected to the sexual sin, although wickedness definitely could, all sexual sin is wickedness. But the idea of malice, the idea is, it pollutes, it spreads. And so, malice would be like the author of Hebrews talks about the root of bitterness, some broken relationships. You get the feeling that with bickering and fighting and factions and divisions, there's malice in the church at Corinth, and so this wickedness is the issue of sexual sin. He said, "Look, that yeast is going to spread. You guys need to get rid of it so that you can be a bread made without yeast, a bread of sincerity and truth, a sincere and pure devotion to Christ."

Wes

How does Paul's instruction in verses nine through 11 about associating with evil people actually get lived out? And what reasons do you think Paul would give for not even eating with wicked people who call themselves brothers?

Andy

Yeah, so don't associate, don't even eat with such a person. The idea is the individual who's being excommunicated needs to understand how serious this is. So, there are questions, practical questions. What if you are married to... You could imagine a husband and wife, and the husband is excommunicated, and the wife is not. Should they not eat meals together? Jonathan Edwards and others addressed that I think to my satisfaction, saying no, it's not breaking the normal pattern of life that we have to live together. The point is we're not looking to go out for coffee with this individual or have a meal like everything's fine. I think the idea is don't give... It's not like it's some sin to eat or drink in this person's presence like we're going to be legalistic and rigid about this. The point is the individual knows this is serious. I can't hang out with you. We're not just going to hang out.

Now, if you want to get together and talk about what happened and about the state of your soul, let's do that. Let's talk seriously about it. I'll meet with you for that, but we're not just going to hang out. We're not going to watch the ball game together. We're not going to play a game. We're not going to have our families get together. It's like, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. But I want to do everything I can to bring you to repentance, so that's what I think it means. So, I understand there are difficult practical questions here, but no, husbands don't stop eating with excommunicated wives or wives eating with excommunicated husbands, but he said don't associate with them.

And then he is very, very clear. He zeroes in on the issue of sexual immorality. This is a big problem in the Corinthian church. They're surrounded by illicit sex, temple prostitutes, male and female that plied their trade, and before Paul came to town, that was a big part of the darkness. We also struggle with sexual immorality, and the idea is, look, we cannot associate with sexually immoral people. And he says, "Look, I'm not talking about pagans. You can eat with sexually immoral pagans." I mean, don't do sexual immorality with them, but you can eat with them. If a non-Christian invites you over, go over there for the sake of evangelism. We're not talking about that now. We're talking about somebody who claims to be a brother or a sister in Christ, but they're living in flagrant disregard of God's sexual morays. Don't eat with such a person.

Now, if I told you you couldn't eat with any sexually immoral gentiles, you would have to leave this world. What are you going to do? You can't work with them, you can't trade with them. You can't do anything with them. No, he says, "No, then you would have to leave this world, but I am telling you not to associate with people who call themselves brother and yet are living this wicked life."

Wes

It seems the primary distinction is that they are living inconsistent. Those who would call themselves brothers, they're living inconsistently with their confession, where people who are of the world are living consistent with what they believe. They're pursuing their own pleasure, their own ends, and so we would long for them to come to Christ. But the inconsistency of calling ourselves brothers and living in that way is what marks that out as off limits.

Andy

Yeah, that's the whole problem here. That's the reason for doing church discipline at all, is that the name of Christ may be held in honor. Like the Lord's Prayer, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name." You look at that, may your name be hallowed. May Christ's name be held in honor. So, this individual calls himself a brother, but he's leading a wicked immoral life. So there's zero backlash with you sitting at a table with some pagan that goes every day to the temple of Artemis of the Ephesians. Well, that's what he does. And, oh, you ate with him? Yeah, I'm actually trying to lead him to Christ. So Christ, there's no backlash there on the gospel. There's no backlash on Christ. But now, if you're talking about somebody who claims to be a Christian, that's a whole different matter.

Wes

Andy, we talk about verses 12 through 13 in our prospective new member weekend because it deals with church membership and how we should think about this inside-outside language. What does that teach us about the local church? How does it prove the existence and validity of committed local church membership, including perhaps a list or we might think of a directory of names of present members?

Andy

Yeah. Well, that's a great question. Everything that we do, every significant thing we do in the life of the church we should be able to trace back to passages of scripture rightly exegeted. So, if somebody asks us the question, what is covenant membership in a local church? Well, covenant means we've agreed to a set of doctrines, a set of statements about ourselves that we've written up in our church covenant and we've agreed to this. It's not to the same significant level of a marriage covenant where a couple gets up in front of witnesses and in front of a pastor and makes certain promises to each other, but it's similar to that. We're making promises to each other to be a certain way for each other. That's covenant. Well, what is membership? Membership is we're seen to be a part of that church, a significant part. Member, similar to a member of your body, a bodily member, like your arm or your foot or a finger, and Paul even uses that analogy.

So, if you were to ask me, how do you know that membership in the church is biblical? Paul uses the Greek word melē, which is translated, member. So, there it is. 1 Corinthians 12, "You are the body and all of you are members of it." So, there it is, there's membership. But more specifically, I would actually go as you said, to here, 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. The word member isn't used here, but we do have this inside-outside language. Paul's saying, "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside." So, the outside-inside kind of aspect here gives a sense of a boundary, like a line you could draw. But we know that they didn't... I don't know if we know this for sure, but I don't think they had a church building.

So, when he's saying outside-inside the church, now for us, we have a building here in Durham, so if it's outside on a rainy day, you're going to get wet. Come on inside and you won't get wet. There's a church building. Paul's not talking about that. So therefore, what is the church? It's a group of people who know themselves to be part of the same church. You said it probably comes down to a list of names, and I think the list just because we can't remember everyone. You think about on the day of Pentecost, Peter preached, and the other apostles preach, and 3000 were added to their number that day. Who could remember them all? "Oh, I have a very good memory." You don't have that good a memory, no way. There's like 16 of them that were named Titus and six of them were named whatever. We've got to know who these people are, so there had to have been a list.

Furthermore, Paul talks about a list of widows that the church is going to help should their name be on the list or not on the list, and so there had to be a list. So, for me, fundamentally, 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 is proof that there is a list of members, and we know who they are and they're in. And when we are excommunicating them, we're voting them off the list. They're no longer seen to be a member. By the way, that is the final step of church discipline. It's stunning to me that the medieval Catholic Church in the Spanish Inquisition thought it was appropriate to torture heretics, to torture people who had false doctrine.

A man in the 16th century, an Anabaptist named Balthasar Hubmaier wrote a work against this, the first time this was ever clearly addressed, this idea of physical torture and death that the church would mete out on heretics, on people who taught false doctrine. And Balthasar Hubmaier wrote a treatise entitled On Heretics and Those Who Burn Them. And he argued that heretics should be excommunicated, not burned, because there's no scripture on this, there's no burning. I think a lot of times people go to the Old Testament and try to bring it over into the new, but all churches are to do with sinners who won't repent or scandalous sin or heresies is excommunicate the individual.

Wes

What final clear command does Paul give in verse 13? And what final thoughts do you have on this chapter for us today?

Andy

Well, it couldn't be more clear, "Expel the wicked man from among you," my translation says. So fundamentally, God's going to judge the pagans. He's going to judge the sexually immoral pagans. He's saying that's why the wrath of God is coming. That's why we're doing evangelism. We don't want them, we don't want them to experience the judgment of God on the wicked. We want them to flee the wrath to come. That's what the gospel's about - a refuge, a place where you come out from the wrath of God and you're safe. That's why the church has to be pure. That's why the church has to be holy. That's a refuge. It's because of those things, Paul says, that the wrath of God is coming, so come out from that behavior pattern. So therefore, conversely, we've got to expel the wicked man from among us so that we don't have the wickedness within the church, and it spreads to all the other members, so it's pretty clear.

"That's what the gospel's about - a refuge, a place where you come out from the wrath of God and you're safe."

Final word on this is churches need to take this seriously. This is the word of God, and if churches are not actively engaged in healthy biblical church discipline, they ought to be moving toward it as soon as possible. That all the church needs to get on board with this and understand it, and there's ways to get there. Through the faithful teaching of the word and through faithful shepherding and pastoral ministry, you can get the church to the point where it'll do its duty.

Wes

Well, this has been episode six in our 1 Corinthians Bible study podcast. We want to invite you to join us next time for episode seven entitled Lawsuits and Sexual Immorality Among Believers, where we'll discuss 1 Corinthians 6:1-20. Thank you for listening to the Two Journeys podcast and may the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.